Forum Activity for @bob-stephens

Bob Stephens
@bob-stephens
04/29/23 12:04:46AM
19 posts

Benefits of longer VSL?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Nate,

Good to be back.  I fell down the rabbit hole of trying to master the use of 3D printed components to produce dulcimers with sound characteristics similar to wood.  After several years of exploring a lot of dead ends, I have developed techniques that yield the acoustic and visual results I was seeking.  I will be posting more details on my website, at stephenslutherie.com soon.  You can also find my most recent blog post there, which discusses the smart dulcimer prototype I just completed.  It incorporates a HyVibe System developed for guitars.  The system is designed to give many sound shaping tools to acoustic guitars.  Additionally, it gives onboard capability to record, loop, overdub up to four tracks and do a few more cool things.  All of the features work well on my dulcimers since they are constructed more like guitars than traditional dulcimers.

The octaver effect tries to simulate shifting the played note a specified amount up to an octave above or below the note.  In the process, there is significant loss of tone quality.  If just adding a bass line it could be acceptable in some circumstances.  What I am finding with most of the effects is that they can be added in small amounts to the basic sound of the dulcimer.  Since you can layer two or three effects on top of one another the possibilities are endless.  In fact, you have to limit your playing with the effects so that you get on with actually playing the dulcimer.  Once dialed in and stored, however, the effects are easily recalled for use as appropriate.  Some EQ, reverb and a touch of chorus can really warm up the sound and more than make up for any slight loss of character the 3D printed body may have caused (note that the tonal purity of the printed body can also be an asset).

I think you would enjoy the freedom a 3D printer provides to rapidly prototype ideas.  They are starting to show up on craigslist for very attractive prices.  In a few cases, ones that need repair are virtually being given away.  Even a small printer can make instruments in sections.  The software for designing and slicing the model are free downloads as well.  With or without 3D printing, keep up the creative designs.  They keep us all questioning what we know about the humble mountain dulcimer.

Nate
@nate
04/28/23 06:33:55PM
410 posts

Benefits of longer VSL?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Bob Stephens:

I think Dusty pretty well nails it.  If you can't reach the chord, the tone is irrelevant.  Tone can be altered in many ways that are independent of VSL.  All the dulcimers I make have a 25" VSL.  My basses and baritones have a very rich tone with plenty of overtones.  I attribute that to the fact that my tops do not contact the neck and all my dulcimers have an inner or double back.  You are certainly not afraid to think outside the traditional design and building constraints, so I think you can get the best of both worlds with a little experimentation.  I have also made solid body electric micro basses with VSL's in the 23" range that sounded pretty acceptable.


With the use of electronics, virtually any sound is possible at any reasonable VSL.  My latest smart dulcimer has an "octaver" effect that puts in overtones up to a full octave above or below the note you are playing.  Plus eleven other effects to alter the basic sound.



Bob,
it is a pleasure to see you back, after not hearing your insight for a stretch. I would love a link to any blogs or anything similar resources about this 'octaver' 
Suffice it to say the concepts you approach with your instruments are not available to me, but provide important data and concepts for me to bastardize/appropriate handshake
Bob Stephens
@bob-stephens
04/28/23 09:14:44AM
19 posts

Benefits of longer VSL?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I think Dusty pretty well nails it.  If you can't reach the chord, the tone is irrelevant.  Tone can be altered in many ways that are independent of VSL.  All the dulcimers I make have a 25" VSL.  My basses and baritones have a very rich tone with plenty of overtones.  I attribute that to the fact that my tops do not contact the neck and all my dulcimers have an inner or double back.  You are certainly not afraid to think outside the traditional design and building constraints, so I think you can get the best of both worlds with a little experimentation.  I have also made solid body electric micro basses with VSL's in the 23" range that sounded pretty acceptable.

With the use of electronics, virtually any sound is possible at any reasonable VSL.  My latest smart dulcimer has an "octaver" effect that puts in overtones up to a full octave above or below the note you are playing.  Plus eleven other effects to alter the basic sound.


updated by @bob-stephens: 04/28/23 02:45:51PM
Michael Ebersohl
@michael-ebersohl
04/25/23 11:42:55AM
4 posts

Windy City Dulcimer Society


Single-Instructor workshops, band & house concerts, Club activities, monthly Jams

A new mountain dulcimer society was formed in the Chicagoland region in summer of ‘22.  The Windy City Dulcimer Society welcomes players of all levels for a monthly jam, and occasional public presentations.  We have a private Facebook page (by invitation only) that provides timely information about upcoming events.  If you have interest in joining our group, or knowing more about our society please send an email to:  

windycitydulcimersociety@gmail.com


updated by @michael-ebersohl: 04/25/23 11:43:40AM
Alegre1
@alegre1
04/24/23 12:53:53PM
30 posts

The Positive Thread...


OFF TOPIC discussions

Just saw this thread; what a great idea! In between playing dulcimer, if you have Apple TV, I can highly recommend Ted Lasso if you haven't seen it. Also, here is a photo of some happy chickens! 


Al Pacino and the girls 2023.jpg Al Pacino and the girls 2023.jpg - 286KB
Strumelia
@strumelia
04/19/23 08:36:15AM
2,358 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks friends!  Yep, it went well and I do notice things are definitely faster.
There will be some software updates coming up in the near future, and those may not be quite as smooth.  🚧 🚒

jost
@jost
04/19/23 02:38:01AM
77 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

The best server maintenance is the one you don't even notice. In this regard the move was excellent

Richard Streib
@richard-streib
04/18/23 06:51:42PM
266 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have not noticed any problems. Sounds like a wonderful move to the new server.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/18/23 03:23:45PM
1,256 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

No problems here.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song,"

Strumelia
@strumelia
04/18/23 11:34:44AM
2,358 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

The deed is done. All seems fine to me. Please report any noticed problems here.
If you notice any initial loading glitches, first just refresh your page, OR restart your browser.
All should be fine after the cache catches up to the latest state. Thanks!

Richard Streib
@richard-streib
04/17/23 04:58:49PM
266 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hope it goes smooth as buttermilk.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/17/23 10:29:15AM
1,256 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks for the "Heads up" Lisa. Best wishes for a successful move.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Dan
@dan
04/17/23 09:38:40AM
201 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

We'll cross our fingers for ya!

Strumelia
@strumelia
04/16/23 08:00:02PM
2,358 posts

FOTMD Advisory...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi everyone. I thought I'd let you know that on tuesday morning April 18 we will be moving to a new server and there might possibly be temporary glitches on fotmd for an hour or so. Not to worry, it should go smoothly and this move likely won't even be noticed.  -the Management.  :)

strumandorpick
@strumandorpick
04/16/23 04:26:40PM
4 posts

Change out friction pegs?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Strumelia:

So much depends on the size of the peghead (or peg box), and the overall size of the dulcimer.
Choose pegs that don't look too big or too small for the instrument. Use your eye. 👁


My 29" vsl langspil was equipped with Wittner internally geared viola pegs:
langspil_5.jpg


It's an imposing instrument and violin pegs would have looked silly on it.


That's a great looking instrument! 
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
04/15/23 06:27:43PM
2,157 posts

The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

@bvmaestro -- As you've probably read, cardboard dulcimers are as cheap, and as good as you can get unless you build then yourself.  If you DYI a batch of instruments you can get the cost down to about $20 each.  Check out the program(s) of the Waldorf private school system... 

Bvmaestro
@bvmaestro
04/15/23 03:08:47PM
3 posts

The Joy of Sharing Dulcimer


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Although the conversation happened a couple of years ago, I found the idea of replacing recorders with dulcimers interesting.  I am finding that kids are aging with less fine motor skills.  More students struggle even with the most simple recorder fingerings.  I am looking at using dulcimers during my primary grades music instruction.  As early as kindergarten, students will learn to count the frets (which correlates with the simple counting curriculum) while making music using the noter style.  As they progress, they can learn to use fingering on the melody string to increase finger dexterity, and eventually chords.  This would probably last through the second grade.  At this point, then I can branch out to ukulele, recorders, guitars, etc.  I will never replace recorder or ukulele, but the dulcimer will definitely prepare students for such making them invaluable in school music.  Best part, kids will make music quickly and fall in love with it faster.  I think I got the plan. 

Nate
@nate
04/14/23 04:14:24PM
410 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Well whatever his question was, probably at least one person has answered it by now hahahandshake

Dwain Wilder
@dwain-wilder
04/14/23 10:59:06AM
71 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

NateBuildsToys:
Dwain Wilder:

Ah! I just looked up the term "fret scale chart" and see that it is a chart showing the pitch generated at each fret position for each string. That is easy to do with an instrument with a standard string tuning schema, such as the guitar's EADGBE.

The dulcimer is an entirely different instrument in several ways:

  • Players use all sorts of tunings. D5D5A5D4 and A5A5A5D4 are to very popular ones. G4G4F3G3 is another.
  • Dulcimers are essentially diatonic, like a piano without black keys
  • Dulcimers have different scale lengths, ranging from 24" to 28". That allows for even greater range of tunings, and various sets of strings will be found best for each dulcimer
  • Dulcimer players ask for different chromatic frets (I presume that is what you're referring to as 'blue' frets). Popular 'extra' frets are the 1-1/2 6-1/2, the 8-1/2, and 13-1/2. This is a notation developed to describe the chromatic frets on a diatonic fretboard.

So the fret scale chart for a string tuned to D5 would be DFGABCD (the fret pattern of an Appalachian dulcimer is in Mixolydian mode, meaning that the 'black' keys fall between the 2nd-3rd frets,


Dwain please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you may have increased all those notes by an octave(or two with A5 and decreased by 1 with F3 relative to the other notes) though I am not aware of GFG being a normal tuning, perhaps you meant GDG, (one full step down from AEA or a 1-5-8 in G major?) with normal tunings being d4d4A3D3 A3A3A3D3, G3G3D3G2 which are normally notated as D-A-dd (mixolydian tuning) or D-A-AA (Ionian tuning) GDGG (baritone mixo)
Also I think you meant to say that a diatonic scale is like a piano without the black keys, not a piano without the white keys.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/14/23 09:14:11AM
1,256 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Well it is all speculation until the original poster replies and tells us what he means by "blue notes."

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Skip
@skip
04/13/23 10:28:27AM
370 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Since he's a guitar builder and probably player, I think he is referring to blues notes.That's the reason for my recommendation.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
04/13/23 08:26:33AM
2,157 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Is he referring to BLUES notes -- which frankly can be any note at all.  Or BLUE notes which would only refer to some chart/table of notes which includes some colored blue?  

Nate
@nate
04/12/23 11:49:47PM
410 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions


Dwain Wilder:

Ah! I just looked up the term "fret scale chart" and see that it is a chart showing the pitch generated at each fret position for each string. That is easy to do with an instrument with a standard string tuning schema, such as the guitar's EADGBE.

The dulcimer is an entirely different instrument in several ways:

  • Players use all sorts of tunings. D5D5A5D4 and A5A5A5D4 are to very popular ones. G4G4F3G3 is another.
  • Dulcimers are essentially diatonic, like a piano without white keys
  • Dulcimers have different scale lengths, ranging from 24" to 28". That allows for even greater range of tunings, and various sets of strings will be found best for each dulcimer
  • Dulcimer players ask for different chromatic frets (I presume that is what you're referring to as 'blue' frets). Popular 'extra' frets are the 1-1/2 6-1/2, the 8-1/2, and 13-1/2. This is a notation developed to describe the chromatic frets on a diatonic fretboard.

So the fret scale chart for a string tuned to D5 would be DFGABCD (the fret pattern of an Appalachian dulcimer is in Mixolydian mode, meaning that the 'black' keys fall between the 2nd-3rd frets,


Dwain please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you may have increased all those notes by an octave(or two with A5 and decreased by 1 with F3 relative to the other notes) though I am not aware of GFG being a normal tuning, perhaps you meant GDG, (one full step down from AEA or a 1-5-8 in G major?) with normal tunings being d4d4A3D3 A3A3A3D3, G3G3D3G2 which are normally notated as D-A-dd (mixolydian tuning) or D-A-AA (Ionian tuning) GDGG (baritone mixo)
Also I think you meant to say that a diatonic scale is like a piano without the black keys, not a piano without the white keys.
updated by @nate: 04/13/23 02:47:08AM
Dwain Wilder
@dwain-wilder
04/12/23 11:34:06PM
71 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Woodworm cigarbox guitars:

can someone help me with a fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer.
Preferably with the blue notes

Ah! I just looked up the term "fret scale chart" and see that it is a chart showing the pitch generated at each fret position for each string. That is easy to do with an instrument with a standard string tuning schema, such as the guitar's EADGBE.

The dulcimer is an entirely different instrument in several ways:

  • Players use all sorts of tunings. D5D5A5D4 and A5A5A5D4 are to very popular ones. G4G4F3G3 is another.
  • Dulcimers are essentially diatonic, like a piano without white keys
  • Dulcimers have different scale lengths, ranging from 24" to 28". That allows for even greater range of tunings, and various sets of strings will be found best for each dulcimer
  • Dulcimer players ask for different chromatic frets (I presume that is what you're referring to as 'blue' frets). Popular 'extra' frets are the 1-1/2 6-1/2, the 8-1/2, and 13-1/2. This is a notation developed to describe the chromatic frets on a diatonic fretboard.

So the fret scale chart for a string tuned to D5 would be DFGABCD (the fret pattern of an Appalachian dulcimer is in Mixolydian mode, meaning that the 'black' keys fall between the 2nd-3rd frets,

Nate
@nate
04/12/23 11:32:43PM
410 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I believe he is referring to the 1.5 and 4.5 frets, the 1.5 I think is the minor pentatonic blue note in D, both allow for the melody string to play a d minor scale, the .5 fret also helps with minor scale chords


updated by @nate: 04/12/23 11:37:06PM
Skip
@skip
04/12/23 10:49:11PM
370 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Woodworm cigarbox guitars:

can someone help me with a fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer.
Preferably with the blue notes



Your best option may be to make it chromatic. The frets are basically located using the same procedures as you use making a guitar. If you decide to use the dulcimers diatonic fret placement, you will need to 'bend' notes to get the blue notes. You may want to study the MD fret board before making a final decision although the extra frets can be installed later. Or build two, one diatonic, one chromatic.sun

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
04/12/23 09:34:51PM
2,157 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

What, exactly do you mean by "blue notes".  With dulcimer there are the basic diatonic frets, diatonic frets plus one or two extras, or full chromatic frets like a guitar.  In 40 + years of messing about with dulcimers I've never heard the terem "blue notes",  

Nate
@nate
04/12/23 06:22:16PM
410 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Are you asking for a list of fret measurements for chromatic frets? The stew mac calculator can be set to 'electric guitar' and will then show placement for all 12 frets in an octave.
Are you asking for a chart which shows scale degrees and how to fret them? I am not aware of one for chromatic, but this chart has the diatonic frets and you could add onto this yourself.
https://everythingdulcimer.com/tab/chord_chart_dad_major.pdf
For every fret that is not included on this chart, you can identify it's note, then identify the notes of the other frets you are playing and with a chart like this 
https://www.michael-thomas.com/music/class/chords_notesinchords.htm
you can determine what chords you are making with these frets. So whichever frets you have, I promise it's a pretty quick process to transcribe your fretboard into a chart of scale degrees in various keys or letter notes.

Dwain Wilder
@dwain-wilder
04/12/23 06:01:07PM
71 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I have a fret calculator spreadsheet, if you use MS Excel. Stew-Mac has one too, but doesn't allow you to specify extra frets. Mine shows all extra frets.

I can't attach a spreadsheet file here, but send me a private note with an email addy and I'll send the spredsheet. MS Excel 2016 or later needed.

Woodworm cigarbox guitars
@woodworm-cigarbox-guitars
04/12/23 03:57:53PM
1 posts

fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

can someone help me with a fret scale chart of a mountain Dulcimer.
Preferably with the blue notes

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/12/23 11:15:48AM
1,256 posts

Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Nate, here is a link to a short piece from the Smithsonian Institution on how to build a hammered dulcimer.

https://www.si.edu/spotlight/hammered-dulcimer/hdmake

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/12/23 11:12:50AM
1,256 posts

Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

For anyone interested in learning about the hammered dulcimer, I recommend this book The Hammered Dulcimer A History by Paul M. Gifford which was published by Scarecrow Press. The book is no longer available new. When I looked for it in the used market, it is even more expensive that when I bought it new; $65 then and almost twice that now. In my opinion it is well worth the price to those who have a genuine interest in this instrument. If you just want to read it, see if your local library can get it for you.

On the "scheitholt" issue, I in addition to placing the blame on Praetorius, we can also place the blame of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC for displaying a zitter and calling it a scheitholt without extensively researching the history of the instrument and on Jean Ritchie for taking it at face value and repeating it in one of her books. The same instrument is still in the collection at the MMA, but is now called a zither.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Nate
@nate
04/11/23 08:39:02PM
410 posts

Connection Between Hammered and Mountain Dulcimers?


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

robert schuler:

I saw my first hammered dulcimer in a 1972 issue of Singout magazine. I went back and  read it again only to get lost in all the other great stories from folks long gone and others now very old. It gave no history just a how to build our own for $5.

I can't add anything about its origins but I did build one 17 years ago. I keep it in my dining room always handy to play whenever I pass  by...Robert


Do you by any chance still have this article? I am sure i could find an online resource for how to build one but I have become very fascinated with how people would convey building ideas over print. The first dulcimer I built was from a Reader's Digest "traditional skills" book. It did not explain anything nearly enough, but my un-intonated dulcimer with absurdly high action did sound so bad it made me want to actually learn about building dulcimers, out of desire to produce something better.
Anyway, if possible I'd really appreciate a photo of this article, or details that could help me find a digital copy of it.
Thanks
Nate
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/05/23 12:18:20PM
1,256 posts

2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thank you, Robin.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
04/05/23 12:15:37PM
1,514 posts

2023 Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming online link


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

@ken-longfield I had no idea about your wife's serious surgery and am sorry the recovery has been a difficult one.  I will be praying for you both. 

  74