Forum Activity for @robin-thompson

@dusty-turtle, I like your sticker image and wonder whether I may share it on social media? 

The VSL on a Black Mountain is a little longer than you stated, but they cost less than the Gingers. They are pretty decent dulcimers. Just trying to give you ideas.

https://blackmtninstruments.com/buy-dulcimers/

I just ordered some square stickers using this design. Shipping costs may prevent me from sending them around to everyone, but feel free to download the image yourselves.

 IADD for stickers.jpg - 144KB

The Ginger DOES come with a real nice soft case.

Oops. I thought I had indicated that our local group is tuned DAA. I guess I assumed that mentioning the Apple Creek dulcimer and posting here had covered it. Sorry.

I'm collecting the suggestions.

As Susie noted, things like the Little Dulcimers List tend to drift out of date. There isn't a strong sustained demand for 24 VSL instruments. I've built several, but don't add my name to the list, 'cause I build straight sided things for personal use. I could use my home-built band saw to do a sawn frame build, but I won't.

Looking for the McSpadden Ginger has an interesting result. When you Google it the page says " 26" Fret Scale Dulcimer ". You have to click on a particular Ginger model to get the "23 3/16" fretboard" and "Optional setups are ... and D-A-AA" information. I'm sure it would be a good choice, but, at $500+ without case, I don't know if it is within her price range.

Folkcraft will build your choice of scale: 23", 24", 25" and up.

A McSpadden Ginger sings beautifully in DAD or DAA with the strings they recommend for D tuning.

A Ron Ewing dulcimette (not the baritone dulcimette) is designed for DAD tuning one octave higher than standard. The string tension in D is higher than I like, so I usually tune mine down to C or lower. I, too, am toying with the idea of a baritone dulcimette because the little Ewing dulcimers are marvelous :-)

That's why I asked Wally what tuning his friend wanted. I agree, your baritone dulcimette is gorgeous and has a great voice.  It sounds like she's just starting out, so my guess is she'd want a dulcimer in D tuning, to learn and play with groups. Many of these little dulcimers are for those of us who already have standard dulcimers and are looking for alternate tunings and fun little dulcimers to complement what we already have. Maybe Wally will get back with us and let us know. Hey, even I am still toying with the idea of a Ewing baritone ducimettte.

I have one of Ron Ewing's baritone dulcimettes and I absolutely love it.  Tight construction, low action, crisp, clear sound.  However, it is tuned usually to G or A rather than D, and the VSL is only about 21 inches, so it may not be perfect for this case.  That's why I recommended a McSpadden Ginger.

Does your friend want standard D tuning? 

Many of the little dulcimers are set up for alternate tunings (usually G or A). So that's something to keep in mind. 

Check out Ron Ewing's baritone dulcimette.

Ron Ewing makes finely crafted instruments in a variety of shapes and sizes.  His dulcimers are worth a closer look.

The McSpadden Ginger is the obvious choice.  The VSL is just over 23 inches.  McSpadden will set it up either to tune like a standard dulcimer to the key of D or a 4th or 5th higher to G or A.

Susie mentioned the " Little Dulcimers Little List " that I put together several years ago. It needs to be updated, since some of those luthiers are no longer active and there may be some new kids in town.  But it's still a good place to start.

Wally -- I could do something like a finished version of that kit your wife won last year at Berea.  Mushroom frets and geared tuners instead of staple frets and wood or autoharp pin tuners.

I do like my tab (still not posted) but after many tries & not liking any of the dulcimers sounds, or picks, or tones, I created - stopping for today - but this is what I have. Trying maybe to put too much in (explosions, marching, crying, hope) and it just sounds the same. Oh well

I have two McSpadden Gingers, which I love. You can have them set up for standard D tuning. They check most of the boxes you have listed. They are quality made, sound great, and are a joy to play. 

Also, in the groups, check out the "Little Dulcimers" group, where you'll see a "Little Dulcimers Little List". Very helpful when looking for a smaller dulcimer.

We have a friend who is looking for a small dulcimer. She is currently playing a borrowed small Apple Creek instrument. She has tried "full size" instruments and is uncomfortable with them.

I would describe her desires as follows:

24 inch VSL
Hourglass body
Geared tuners
6 1/2 fret
Holes you can't drop a pick in
Good sound
Not looking for a specific wood
New or used OK
Moderate price

Any suggestions?

I'm not sure if you mean a totally fretless fretboard or no half frets so I'll give thoughts on both possibilities. I've only played for 1 1/2 years. In that time I've experimented with noters in varying sizes and materials(wood, metal, plastics, glass). Throughout my experiments I discovered several things. I could immediately rule out a material by how well it slides. If there's too much drag it's out. If it absorbs too much string vibration it's out. I started getting frustrated and that's when I started hitting frets with my noter as I would slide. I had totally lost focus on how I was holding the noter. At that point I started reading about fretless fretboards. I decided against it because I realized the value of landmarks. There's a sweet spot within each fret to aim for. My current noter is a 1/4 inch delrin rod. I use a thumb on top index finger support underneath that slides along the fretboard. Fret bumping is a thing of the past!

I am a diehard diatonic player. My Dulcimer does not have 1/2 frets. I have over 100 songs in my personal tab library all either original DAA or ones I've transposed to DAA. I have played DAA on a chromatic instrument and was confounded by fret spacing.

It is completely logical to keep options open for tunings and or mode that 1/2 frets offer. And the flexibility while playing in a group is almost a necessity!

Randy makes a good point.  Diatonic frets create bumps just as much as chromatic frets do, and decent noter players seem to adjust just fine.

When you slide with a finger--which flatpickers and chorders do all the time--those bumps also exist.  But what's cool about the technique is that our ears play a trick on us. Instead of hearing each of the notes that correspond to each fret, our ears hear those slides as genuine slides, filling in all the microtones as thought there were no frets at all.  That is why a hammer-on sounds so different than a slide.  For example, when you slide from 3 to 4 and when you hammer on from three to four, you are just playing two notes.  But when you slide, our ears hear an infinite number of tones in between those two.  (Having said all this, one can slide in a precise and deliberate manner to approximate the sound of a hammer-on or pull-off, but now we're getting into nerdy nuances.)

As a flatpicking and chording player, I use extra frets all the time and wouldn't want it any other way.  But I understand the history of the instrument and respect deeply those who play truly diatonic instruments in the traditional ways.  That alone is a reason not to add extra frets.  The argument about "bumps" is less convincing to me, for I think you can adjust when you want to slide over the frets you don't need in a particular passage.

Every noter player has already mastered the skill of playing do mi, sliding the noter by, and not sounding, re.

Don't be leery of what you already know.

True, but it sounds better to me without having to bump over that extra fret imho.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Having a 6.5 fret won't stop a dedicated noter player from playing traditional tunes on a dulcimer in noter style...and sounding great!

I have dulcimers with and without the 6 1/2 fret. When playing with a noter I prefer the dulcimers without. When playing chords, if prefer the one with. There are exceptions to both of those preferences from time to time.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

What if we have a challenge to play - any instrument (music & chords included with tabs) - 'Peace in the Family' - Ukrainian Folk Song?

How many peaceful music hugs can we share to our groups & friends and ones in need - world wide?

What can we do as musicians? Any ideas?

Don't reject an instrument because it has a 6 1/2 fret!

I'm playing one which doesn't have one, but I would prefer to have one. Our group (tuned in DAA) plays occasional tunes which require it.

That answers my question.  Once again, you've come through for me.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!

What Dusty said.  Personally I don't need it or use it.  But I play very traditionally in Noter & Drone or Fingerdancing style; never play 3-finger chords; and, with some exceptions, play traditional and folk music b ecaue it is what appeals to me.

Steven, if you plan to play traditional music on the dulcimer in the traditional drone style, you don't need a 6+ fret.  You will get used to re-tuning your melody string to get the appropriate mode for each song.

If you plan to play modern music, if you plan to play chords, and even if you just plan to play a lot of tablature written by others, you will probably want the 6+ fret, which has been standard for about 50 years now.

So is it important?  No.  But you might want it.

When looking for an instrument to purchase, is it important to have the 6 1/2 fret?

By the By - both of the dulcimer tabs of "Peace in the Family"

by Peggy Carter & Laurie Alsobrook can be shared.

So, share with your group - Pass on this Hug.

Hi there Silverstrings.  I own multiple Fellenbaum dulcimers and can tell you that he builds excellent well-crafted instruments. I do not find them wider or deeper than many other makers (I own quite a few dulcimers by different makers).  Also, I need to comment on the statement that an instrument's woods do not affect sound in any discernible way - that's not true. A wood's density and its age can have quite an effect on sound:

Effects on pitch: Lower-density woods absorb higher-frequency sound waves more than lower-frequency sound waves.

Effects due to reflection and resonance - softer woods absorb sound waves more than than harder woods do, and reflect less.

Effects due to age - as wood ages, internal sap hardens and hemicellulose degrades, which changes acoustical properties of any wood.

Can you hear these kinds of differences?  Many people can.  For a good demonstration, try listening to classical guitars.  Traditionally, classical guitars come with one of two woods for their tops - spruce or cedar.  It is very easy to find multiple examples of identical guitar models by a particular maker that differ *only* in the choice of tonewood for the top.  Listen to a bunch of these with cedar tops and compare them to those with spruce tops.  I'd be *very* surprised if you don't hear the difference between the two.

It is also true that the volume of the sound box and a host of other considerations *also* affect the sound of instruments. But it is incorrect to suggest that the woods used in their creation do not.

I doubt that banjo strings were used by early because of the sound they produced. My guess is that banjo strings were used because they had loop rather than ball ends (guitar strings). It was a matter of which type of string was easier to attach to the dulcimer.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

There is nothing particularly special about 'banjo strings' vs 'dulcimer strings'... except in relation to their being offered in convenient pre-packaged sets. Banjo 'sets' are geared towards banjo scale length (generally 25"-30") and standard banjo tuning: gDGBD (the last D being an octave higher than the first D, equal to a dulcimer high d).

The reason old timers and older books mention using banjo strings is not because they thought banjo strings were better suited than dulcimer strings. Rather, it's simply because there didn't used to BE many places to buy pre-packaged sets of 'dulcimer strings' in those pre-1970s days, whereas banjo string sets have been around for a lot longer and were way easier to find in music stores. Old timers were resourceful and used whatever they could get their hands on. This was pre-internet- there were no websites to order strings from- you had to either go to a music store or order from a paper catalogue using stamps envelopes and sending checks. (and then "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery", LOL)

The truly best approach is to use a string calculator (Strothers is the current best one online) and based on the VSL of YOUR dulcimer and the notes that YOU want to tune the strings to, select the gauges you'll need for that tuning. Then buy some separate steel strings (usually loop-end) from a site like juststrings .com. Have some extras on hand for breakage. If you have a typical sized dulcimer and simply want to use typical DAd or DAA type tunings, you can buy packets of dulcimer string 'sets' and it'll work just fine in most cases. It's convenient if you don't need anything out of the norm.

Commercial strings heavier than a certain gauge will more likely be wound, which you'll notice when ordering strings online. If you have your heart set on unwound heavy bass strings then you 'may' have to buy a spool of that heavy gauge music wire and cut/twist your own unwound bass strings. It depends on just how heavy the gauge is that you want. Personally, I found heavy unwound bass strings to really hurt my fingers when fretting, so I do use wound heavy bass strings on my banjos and dulcimers. If you always play with a noter this wouldn't matter.

As Dan said, there were old time builders who used banjo strings, but I don' think that that is the reason for the different sound.  There have always only been a literal handful of music wire manufacturerscubic inches under the hood" of many  and many string makers and brands.  Basically wire is wire. 

What does, from our own experience as Dan says, make a difference is the wound versus plain steel bass string.  That, even I can hear a difference in the sound.  That, IMHO is what helps produce that "high silvery" old time sound. 

Another factor, IMHO,  is the generally smaller interior volume "cubic inches under the hood" of many old time dulcimers compared to the deeper-bodied modern instruments.  Larger interior volumes emphasize  the baritone and bass tones.

I. D. Stamper used banjo strings on his 36 inch VSL pieces! I seem to recall Jean Ritchie making reference to using banjo strings in one of her books? (Page 17 in the Dulcimer Book) You will find a very different "timber" using a wound bass string verses the solid music wire. I guess it's going to be how "you" define old time sound, but yes very different between wound and plain string. (I use solid wire for most my pieces.)

Thank you again everyone for such incredible advice/information. I’ve now read this thread three times and I’m still learning!

I’m an admitted vintage mountain dulcimer collector/junkie and purist. I own a Homer Ledford, Edd Presnell, AW Jefferies, Clifford Glenn, Rugg CapriTaurus, Keith Young, George Orthey and a Bill Davis.

Also, I’m about 2 years in playing and collecting. I love players/makers like Richard Farina, Michael & Howard Rugg, Jerry Rockwell, Steven Seifert, Jean Ritchie, Joellen Lapidus and Neal Hellman.

I’m so fascinated by the beautiful sweet sound of a mountain dulcimer and the early high quality craftsmanship.

Ok, now with all that said I have a question for everyone…I once read that the older dulcimers used banjo strings to get the nice old sound.

I looked at a John Pearse set of (5) banjo strings. They’re  light/medium gauge .010, .012, .013, .20W, .010. I further read you can use the two .010 strings for the melody strings and .012. & .013 for others and set aside the.20W.

Does anyone have thoughts on using banjo strings verses dulcimer strings?

Thank you for reading. 

Welcome, Walt and Megan!  We look forward to answering your questions and helping you out where we can.

Hi all! I'm Megan, here from the Boston area. I've been playing for about a month now and have appreciated the information in these forums as well as the handful of welcome messages I've gotten already. Looking forward to chatting with folks. :)  

Sorry, I was just kidding about making it a month, but I did think it was interesting to list events going on in the month.

I agree with the approach of keeping it simple- go with our original name and designated day in March. Don't worry about what others may/may not be doing.
I agree with Robin's thoughts about it being a simple celebration that anyone can be part of from their own home in whatever way they can or would like to. Complicating things or broadening the scope only makes people not want to do anything themselves.