Forum Activity for @dusty

Yes, you can have fancy decorative inlay work on a fretboard.  And you can also have fret markers.  Those are clearly two different things. 

Obviously, decorative fretboards are pretty.  (Don't we all love that long-stem red rose on the Blue Lions?)  And if the decoration varies up and down the fretboard, then it might serve the purpose of fret marks, but only for the owner.  Anyone else grabbing that instrument for the first time would have no idea what's going on.  That's why there are standards.  The standard fret marking pattern of 3, 5, and 7, means that I can borrow anyone's instrument--or switch among the several that I own--and know at a glance where I am on the fretboard, even if there are one or two extra frets.  That obvious advantage cannot be overstated.  If one of my instruments were marked at 3, 5, and 7 and another at 2, 4, and 6, and another at 1+, 3, and 4, those fret markers would lose their purpose and would have to be ignored altogether.  They would confuse rather than clarify.

So that brings us back to the original post, which was about the proper placement of fret markers, not decorative inlay.  An individual player can request fret markers anywhere s/he wishes.  Fret markers do not change the sound of an instrument.  But anything other than the standard pattern would confuse anyone else.  I would strongly urge luthiers to either use no fret markers or use the standard pattern, unless, of course, they are responding to a specific request for a custom dulcimer.  And again, for a diatonic fretboard, there is no need for fret markers anyway since the pattern of whole and half steps tells you exactly where you are on the fretboard.

I personally would not be able to play with raised fret markers at all.  As you slide from one chord position to another, you need the fretboard to be as smooth as possible.  And even when not sliding, you want your touch on one fret to be identical to the touch on another fret.  There would be no way to play with any speed with an inconsistent touch on the fretboard.  There is a reason why everyone uses inlay both for fret markers and for decoration.

I'll add something else. What about raised fret markers. The purpose is to allow the player to know what fret they are on without looking. Thus eyes can be on the strum or picking, or music. These markers do not interfere with the strings. Simply provide sensory feedback.

Interesting discussion! 

Yes we all agree that 'fret markers' or fret board inlays can be decorative or utilitarian, or a combination of the two.

But just for the sake of argument-  if we put aside inlays and decorations that are for decoration only.... then does the very term 'fret markers' imply that they are marking frets in some purposeful utilitarian way?  Is the purpose and definition of a 'fret marker' by its very nature to mark/differentiate a fret so as to enable the player to more easily tell one fret from its neighbor frets?

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I mean, you could have the standard of a simple dot inlay on certain frets (say 3, 5, 7, 10). Some might say that was all practical purpose without any decorative intent. If they were inlaid abalone of something you could say they were practical makers that were decorative as well.

But if you had those exact same dots on every fret they would not differentiate any fret from the others. They would have no practical purpose to differentiate certain frets, only a decorative purpose. You could have fancy leaves or vines on every fret and if they were all the same visually for every fret then they would be only decorative.

OR, you could have inlays on every fret but maybe on the 3, 5, 7 etc they could be larger or fancier. Then they'd fall back into having the practical purpose and maybe decorative as well.

I would put forth the thought that a 'marker' implies marking something so that it is recognized and stands out. And 'decorative' implies simply visual embellishment. But you could have 'markers' that are also decorative. But if they are all the same on every fret then they are simply decorations and not 'markers'.

What do you think?

I once spent over $60 on a fancy brass capo that works almost as well as the $20 ones Ron Ewing has been selling for decades. No one said logic was my strongest attribute.

Could be both decorative and/or useful, depending on the design.

One word of caution to those who use stickers on their fretboards-
There are good products for removing sticker residue once you've decided to remove longtime stickers. However, few people take into account that wood darkens over time when exposed to light- even normal room light while playing. If you leave stickers on for a year or more, when you remove them you may find that the wood is lighter colored under the stickers, thus you are left with unsightly 'ghost' marks where the stickers used to be. These marks don't even disappear when you rub oil on. I've seen these poor dulcimers on Ebay with their ugly light colored rectangles up and down their fretboards. So, consider removing fret board stickers after your initial learning period, before they create permanent cosmetic damage.

Not sure everyone agrees with minimalistic fret markers.  https://www.pinterest.com/deachasuravanic/fret-markers/  Besides, what is wrong with decorations?  (In case it wasn't clear, I am laughing a little at this discussion.)  Fret markers are very much the choice of the luthier/musician.  I have made instruments with no fret markers and a 4 equidistant chromatic dulcimer with both dulcimer and guitar fret markers so many more people could play!

I think you can find plans on the internet for the capo Ken Hulme describes. If you want to buy a capo you might try Folkcraft or Prussia Valley. I imagine the shipping costs depend upon where you are in Canada.

Here is a link to what one you can make yourself would look like: https://www.etsy.com/listing/161049441/dulcimer-capos?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=dulcimer+capo&ref=sr_gallery-1-7

Or you can order one from this seller or others.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Best or cheapest?  You can make a perfectly adequate capo from a couple dollars worth of materials from your local DIY store -- a 1/4-20 bolt, a wing nut, a short piece of rubber/plastic tubing, and a couple scraps of wood.  Or you can spend upwards of $30 plus shipping for a capo that looks sexy and also holds the strings down.

Lisa has it right.  Too many fret markers, like Matt apparently does, are no longer meaningful, merely decorative.  The  original intent of the fret marks is/was to indicate to the player significant points in the fret pattern, not just decorate the bare spaces between the frets. 

Well, when I first started, I put stickers with 1,2,3,4... on each fret, that helped.  Actually, I think fret markers help develop a pattern in a person's mind.  After playing for a couple years, I realized I didn't look down at the fret board anyway, so maybe everyone should have removable fret markers so when they become extraneous, you can remove them?

Which brings up the existential question... if one were to put a fret marker on every fret- what purpose would it serve?

Wow, I hope this group never dissects one of my instruments.  Not only do I put fret markers at 3-5-7-10-12, I also put a marker under the frets at 1+,6+,8+ and 13+.  Guess it all depends on what the builder prefers!!  Never noticed that the placement of fret markers influenced the sound of the instrument.  (-:

Any suggestions on the best place to get a capo? I'm in Canada, so shipping costs will be a factor.

Bob, what you need to do is make the dot really big, and engrave "Don't blame the builder" on it!

I had a customer ask for her build to have a position dot at the first fret.

Well, hope people in the future don't think that was my idea

True, Ken.  Those are the octaves of the 3 and the 5.

I, too, find it interesting that there is no 8+.  I understand not adding the half frets on smaller scale instruments, since the frets get so small, but on a full-size dulcimer most people want the second octave to mirror the first.  There is a 13+ fret, after all.

And 10 and 12, also. There is no octave for the 1 1/2 which would be 8 1/2.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Yes, that dulcimer has frets at 1+ and 6+.  But notice that the fret markers are still at 3, 5, and 7.

Here is a Mcspadden with I guess 1.5 6.5

 Screen Shot 2021-01-02 at 3.07.10 PM.png - 1.5MB

Hearts of the Dulcimer Podcast - Episode 49 
Stay Home and Sing with the Dulcimer: with Aubrey Atwater

https://dulcimuse.com/podcast

Here’s another stay home and play dulcimer episode created during the COVID-19 pandemic. Aubrey Atwater shares tips on how to improve singing and singing with the dulcimer.

You can listen to all the  Hearts of the Dulcimer Podcast  episodes directly on our website:  https://dulcimuse.com/podcast  or in most podcast apps.

Every episode has its own resource page with photos, videos, and song lists.

Here's the resource page for this episode: https://dulcimuse.com/podcast/resource/049.html

Thanks for listening!

Sounds real good ,  Bob

Soundin' good, Bob!

That's way nicer than most cigar box guitars I've seen and heard, Bob. Niiiice!

Really cool! Nice job on it.

Hey, go for a socket!  Merle Watson used a Craftsman.  :)

Robin, thanks!  I have tried one, but I'm not very good at it, plus the slide I have is a bit small.  I should get another one.  I might try a sparkplug socket. :-)

Bob, that critter sounds cool!  Have you tried using a bottleneck slide on it?  

I love my Blue Lion. After sitting in the back of the hall closet for over 20 years, it’s still in tune! The highest quality of any dulcimer I ever owned.

Finished building this cigar box guitar yesterday.  It was a fun project.  Kind of dulcimer-ish.

Someone on fb shared this writing from Ralph and it seems appropriate to include it here: 

https://bulletin.swarthmore.edu/bulletin-issue-archive/archive_p=1060.html?fbclid=IwAR3bzp1m1H6S6JynCk0dGCauS2hdYNdCzLPqsfOxzGAl78Y5OCNSA34WAew

Ralph Lee Smith has given the mountain dulcimer world so much!  Like Ken H, I would like to have met both Jean Ritchie and Ralph yet both have now joined the ancestors.  

Ralph contributed much to our understanding of dulcimers, where they came from, and how they evolved.  For anyone interested in solid scholarship his books are worth reading.  I met him once. He was a kind person who was generous in sharing his collection of instruments as well as his knowledge.

R.I.P. Ralph.   
My greatest regrets as a dulcimer person are that I never had the chance to meet and know Ralph and Jean Ritchie.

I feel fortunate to have met Ralph Lee Smith several times, most notably at Dulcimer U at Western Carolina University.  What a kind, knowledgeable man!  He was able to impart his knowledge about the mountain dulcimer in a way that communicated how pleased he was to answer your question or help you understand something better.  He was never arrogant about what he knew--or how much,  He just enjoyed sharing what he knew with others--and we were all richly blessed.  Rest in peace, dear man.

We all knew this day was coming, but we didn't know WHEN.  It's still very sad for us who knew Ralph, and sad for the dulcimer world at large.  He left a great quantity of scholarly work behind, which will instruct and entertain musicians and luthiers for many years.  Rest in peace, dear friend.

Thank you Ken. It's a deep loss for the dulcimer world. Ralph Lee Smith has given us all so much.

Sad news indeed. Ralph's knowledge of the evolution of the dulcimer far surpassed that of any else living or dead.  We will be forever in his debt for his publications on dulcimer history.

It is with a great deal of sadness that I share the news that Ralph Lee Smith died this morning, December 30, 2020, at his home in Virginia. He was 93 years old. I will share more when I have collected myself. R.I.P. Ralph.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

We're talking about fret markers, not fret placement.