Forum Activity for @john-keane

To me, there are a ton of valid points made by Rob.  I think that it is also important to consider what you plan to do with your dulcimer in terms of playing style.  Most makes of mountain dulcimers will have a little more volume (and deeper tone) with a longer VSL due to more string to vibrate.  If I were to have a dulcimer dedicated solely to noter playing I would want a 29-30 inch VSL for that reason.  Having owned and played dulcimers ranging from 22-30 inches in VSL, I made some discoveries that may or may not be unique to me.  For daily chord/melody playing a 27 inch VSL seems to fit me better than anything else.  It's comfortable and I don't have to think about it.  I played (quite vigorously) 28+ and 29 inch VSL dulcimers for three years or so before giving the 27 inch a try and have never looked back.  The first time I tried it I knew it was right for me.  I tried a 26 inch VSL instrument for a few weeks prior to that and felt it was a tad cramped for me.  With that said, I find that an even smaller VSL is more comfortable with a chromatic dulcimer due to the lack of forgiveness for finger placement as opposed to a "standard" fret board.  If you prefer a smaller VSL, there are things that can be done to increase the resonance of the instrument like adding a Galax back or possum board.  I think Rob's suggestions work well in TWO ways rather than one:  Try things outside your comfort zone, but also try things to discover what your true comfort zone actually is. 

There's a pervasive thought amongst string instrument beginning players that their hands are too small for a "normal/average" sized instrument.  I used it as an argument many, many moons ago when buying guitars.  My hands are still small but they were a lot smaller when I was 12 so what kind of guitar did I want?  One with a very narrow neck.  I found  a used Gibson from the early 60's with an extremely narrow next which I though was ideal.  But, was it?  When looking for a good electric a few later, I returned to the Gibson section of the music store because of the smaller neck profile.  Wonderful, huh?  Maybe, maybe not!

Were I to have it to do over, I would have gone straight to the Gretsch section and bought on of those Chet Atkins models with the really wide, classical style neck.  Why would I do that since I have really small hands?  Because your fingers stretch with use.  Your reach between your index and little finger gets to be huge with proper use and gentle stretching.  When I studied classical guitar I saw the fallacy of my thoughts.  In fact on a flamenco guitar forum in which I used to participate a fellow said he was 6'5" with large hands; all of his Spanish teachers were 5'5" or under with much smaller hands and all of them could stretch their fingers further than he could.  

Fast forward to the dulcimer.  I bought my first one and the vsl is about 30".  Did I know that was "long?"  Shoot, no.  I knew it had 3 or 4 strings and you laid it on your lap to play it and that it seemed like it was fun to play.  This was in the mid-80s so there was no one to ask; no one to say, "Boy! That's a big dulcimer. Bet it's hard to play."  Nope, I just played it.  My fingers stretched to make the reaches in some tab.  If I were playing something by ear, I'd avoid those stretches if I could.  LOL.  The point (probably not well made) is unless you have a physical disability that keeps your fingers from moving "normally" you shouldn't be concerned with the vsl of a dulcimer you like in all other respects.  If you play it the music will come out.  Your fingers will adjust to the length with time and patience.  That's a key thing with any instrument: patience.  My classical guitar teacher taught gentle stretches for both the right and left hands which were to be done every day.  Playing scales using all the fingers also "loosened" them up.

Bottom line point is, don't be afraid to challenge yourself.  Get in there and play just a little beyond your comfort zone.  Remember that comfort zone will change with time; don't be afraid to help it (push it) along.

I use leather strap as a lanyard. I buy it by the spool but you can also use leather boot lace.

 HPIM1863-800.jpg - 75KB

A length of cord, tied around the scroll head and then tied in a loop 3" long or thereabouts is what I've used for years.  Then you can use any number of wall hooks -- screw eyes, cup hooks, picture hangers, etc to position the instrument the wall.  Interior walls not in direct sunlight only please...

What are some of the way you might hang a dulcimer? I am looking for a different way to hold my dulcimers and I am interested in how or what materials you use in holding your dulcimer, say on a wall without worry of slipping.

Does anyone own a dulcimer built by Lee Pack in Weaverville, NC.    I am told they have the old time silvery sound and are unique in this respect.  If you know of a sound file or audio clip that would be great.

I sure will, Maria.  Thanks. 

You are very nice and of course I would be concerned as well. However I did have an email conversation with with him and he said he's really gotten busy and he was so nice to say "I'm sure you have something to do either with that!" He said its just as busy as he was Christmas. But I still would email him and say that since he mentioned 2 weeks and it's 4 that you wondered what happened.  

Ler me know if you want me to mention any anything to him. And I think the tone are really special and hope you love it. Maria 

Hi Maria

No flute yet.  He said, 2 to 3 weeks.  Now a month.  Here's my take.  He's taking extra time, to build me the most magnificent C flute imaginable. 

No flute in another week or so I'll start getting a tiny bit concerned.   I live a very laid back life style.  Nothing bothers me except my health.  

I'll let you know.

Best regards 

Terry

Terry,

Did you ever get your Gray Fox Flute and what do you think?

I love both of the ones I got from him and so reasonable!!

I may be ordering a drone soon I have to see...(So happy that I hadn't used all my Amazon gift card money) and so glad he is able to sell his flute on there!!

let me know bout the Flute!
take care

Maria

Unfortunately most of these critics either have Indian blood but can't prove it or are wannabees.  I love Arvil Bird and his music but when he criticizes, from the stage, "card-carrying Indians" it really gets me. Yeah, I prefer Indian.  You're as much "native American" as I am, right?  You were born here, so you're native, too.  At one time some were trying to get folks to use Amerindian.  I started to try to go on the Pow Wow Circuit once, singing Indian songs, Pete Lafarge, Floyd Westerman, maybe some originals.  Decided there'd be too much compromise involved, so I didn't

And one other thing Rob.............there are lot's of, "Hits" out there rooted in old songs,  I once heard that that one that goes, "Your Not Woman Enough, to Steal My Man," started out to be........."If Your not Fat Enough, Just Eat More Ham".   There are others of course........remember, Leader of the Pack?   It, I am told became a favorite of construction workers who changed the lyric to, "We See the Plumber's Cra_k."  As of yet I am unable to confirm any of this so we will have to say right now those myths are busted.

Anyway, as soon as these meds wear off, I'll be doing lots of in depth research......I even heard that the "Water's Wide" became a weight loss commercial tune that had something to do with, "It's Just So Wide and They Won't Go Over"....., might of been one of those new fangled underwear commercials too...not sure, I'll  keep digging.  Betting that's a myth too.    

Yup, I needed a good laugh too.... and figured you'd get a chuckle out of that one.  Glad I made you laugh...............BTW......remember, Polk Salad Annie?   So I figured, Ramp Salad Lackey.............the lyrics could go anywhere, whew!

Salt.... Ramp Salad... that's just too much, man!  I've laughed about that one since you've posted it.  Some folks probably think I'm a blithering idiot since if that comes to mind I chuckle regardless of where I am.  Good suggestions, too.

Terry, Tho' I used "Cherokee Cowboy" as a Youtube handle, I wouldn't use it in a concert/performing situation because Ray Price will always be country music's "Cherokee Cowboy."  I consider myself a country musician regardless of what I'm playing.  I think Alan Freeman said something like that in his 1st (maybe only) interview in Dulcimer Player's News. 

Mary, Yes, I am Cherokee, a tribal member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, one of 3 Federally recognized Cherokee entities.  Both Grandmothers were what we call original enrollees. I am one of those card carrying Indians that some, both Indian and wannabee, criticize for being able to prove their ancestry to the satisfaction of tribal authorities. 

Thanks!

Im hoping to soon

Thanks, Robin. Very helpful, as always. 

Good to know Robin.   I did decide to sell the dulcimer and have it on the classifieds... it's a real beauty for the right person.

How about:

"The Best of Rob Lackey", the Cherokee Cowboy.

That's my vote.

Just a follow up for those that responded on this forum to me. I purchased off Amazon "You can teach yourself Dulcmer" by Madeline MacNeil and just don't like it. To me isn't really beginner friendly and I just don't like it. I sent my check off today to Anne Lough for her book like John has suggested and will try that. I've decided that I'm not going noter style, but like to "walk my fingers" so probably will concentrate on that method. From various Internet sites and Strumelia's videos I've been working on strumming techniques and a tune or two to work in some finger exercises. I've also read all the material suggested here and downloaded the PDF's which were very helpful.  Thanks everyone for all your help with this!

You can certainly play a just intonated dulcimer with other instruments, particularly if they are providing backing such as guitar chords.  If you are having problems with things sounding 'off' then it is more than likely the instruments are not tuned correctly to blend.  It is true that some specific notes of the scale between the instruments will be slightly different but if you are not both sustaining that particular note in isolation then you are not going to hear the differences.  I play old dulcimers all the time with other instruments and JI really is not a problem - however, generally, tuning is an issue when playing any two or more instruments together.  And that's where you should spend some time, getting the instruments in tune with each other.

In any bluegrass string band you have some instruments in equal temperament (guitar, banjo, mandolin) and some in just intonation or Pythagorean 5ths (dobro, violin, bass) and then the voices will be in natural intonation for the harmonies.  So it really does all work together OK.

The 'problem' with JI on dulcimers is that DAd chording doesn't work for some chords; the 1,0,1 A chord is a particular problem as in DAd the first fret is played as the 2nd of the scale whereas in DAA the first fret is played as the 6th of the scale.

There probably was a couple of ways early builders set the frets using another string as a reference.  The first was to have the bass string as the root note as in DAA with the melody string a 5th above - this will lead to the first fret being closer to the nut than it is to the second.  The other system could have been to use two strings in unison as the reference as in D,d,d so the frets were set against a 5th drone.  This will lead to the 1st fret being positioned a little sharper although still being the 6th of the scale.  And, yes, there are in fact two potential positions for the 6th of the scale when set by ear, both of which sound OK.  In fact, the classical Indian just intonation diatonic scale give the option of either position for the 6th.  So you will see some old dulcimers with what looks like a more 'normal' position for the first fret even though the dulcimer was built for playing the scale from the 3rd fret rather than the nut.  In these cases it is likely that the maker used two strings tuned in unison when setting the frets by ear.  Now I can't prove any of this as being exactly how early makers set their frets but I can say that if you use these techniques you will end up with fret placements that match a number of old dulcimers!

For the Heritage dulcimer project I used the later Leonard Glen fret pattern.  He actually has two different 6ths on his dulcimers.  The first fret in slightly sharper than Ptolemy's calculations but the 11th fret is just intonated.  This gives a shade more flexibility of tunings and, as you are never going to play those two frets together, having two different notes for the 6th of the scale doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that most folks are not going to hear the difference between equal temperament and just intonation when instruments play together.  But you really will notice the sourness if you try to play an older Warren May in DAd.  However, playing a Warren May in DAA with other dulcimers in DAd should not be an issue as I can guarantee that any group of dulcimer players will not all be so accurately in tune that you'd be able to specifically hear the very slight difference of the just intonated notes in the general cacophony!!!

Well Rob, at the risk of sounding a bit off me rocker, I think I would present a playbill sort of description, put it in a portfolio and use the show theme to describe my act.   Here's what I mean, and I do this at the risk of sounding rocker-less...........

                                                                                 "From this Old Holler"

                                                                                The Songs of Simpler Times

                                                                                                  or

                                                                                       "Ramp Salad"

                                                                               Songs that Lighten the Heart

  or something like a Old Time Gospel Show:

                                                                                "Wait'n for My Slippers"

                                                                   Old Time Music Celebrating the Old Time Gospel

 Interesting.  Heard one at our Mt. Dulcimer group about 3 months ago and have been debating picking one up.

Lisa it is something how simply complicated things may feel when our lovely instrument is all new to us. Yes this easy fix will help someone, I just worked it out on my Thomas replica the other day. A-HAA! 

Use your handle that you use for Youtube. Cherokee Cowboy. That's my vote 

Lisa, you can enjoy playing one of these old-timey, single-peg dulcimers yourself.  I know a guy...

Lisa, or just push the string through 'til you can grab it and pull it all the way out.  If there's any "life" left in the string, I like to keep it around if it's long enough to go back on in a pinch.

Kandee, you can just use a credit card to pay through Paypal, without opening or having a paypal account.

If you order it right this minute, I can get it in the mail within the next two hours (monday) before the post office picks up and closes.  Then it'd have like an 80% or 90% chance of arriving to you by Friday.

UPDATE - just got your order- let me run to the PO right now and get your package out!   

Though I've never actually owned a vintage or antique dulcimer myself, when I first saw one of these beautiful old single peg tail ends, I thought to myself:  

Wow, that's cool, but....it would be such a huge PAIN to change a string-  if you needed to change the string at the bottom of the stack there, you'd have to loosen and remove all the other strings on top of it first, to take it off the peg...then replace the string and pile them all back on again.

It didn't occur to me that I was being really, really dense.   

Suddenly the light went on in my head and I realized that if I had to change one of the strings that wasn't 'on top' of the loops stacked on the peg, all i'd need to do was take a little wire snipper and CUT that particular string loop where it looped around the peg, and then just pull it out to extract it from the pile without disturbing the other string loops on the peg.  Then I just put a new string on and its loop will then be on the top of the stack.

D U H .    

Yeah, seems like a no brainer in retrospect, but as a beginner it honestly didn't occur to me at first.  Who knows, maybe I'll save somebody from actually taking off all their strings in order to replace just one string!   

This may seem like an obvious tip to some folks, but honestly I had an "aha! moment" years ago when I figured it out.  So I thought I'd share it in case it saves someone else some effort some day.

You know how most modern dulcimers have a separate little pin or hole- one for each string to end on at their tail piece area?  Sort of like this or a similar arrangement:

Well, many older or vintage dulcimers ( and some of today's wonderful reproductions of old dulcimers) have instead a single peg, knob, or dowel at the tail end where all the strings loop over, one on top of the other, something like this arrangement:

Strumelia--I'll go ahead and buy a button because I could use one anyway...but just wondering if it might get here by this Friday?? I depart Saturday. 

Jan--thanks for stepping up with some ideas for coordinating etc.  I could certainly "do" lunch on Tuesday if that's what is suggested.  I depart for our 3 week trip this weekend but I will check back here for updates while I'm on the road.

I thought there were some open stage "events" at the lunch hour on some days...that I didn't see on the schedule; that's why I wasn't so sure about the schedule....but I think Tues is a great suggestion of connecting with FOTMD folks. 

Cindy and others, its clear there are lots of opinions on this.  The original question was whether to get a "possom board built on" the dulcimer.  That is usually called a Galax back or false back. I have one on my Modern Mountain Dulcimer.  The only "con" is that it makes the dulcimer a little bigger.  But it allows the back to vibrate and definitely provides greater volume. Mine is similar to the dulcimer Don Pedi is playing here .

But you don't necessarily need a possom board; you can just lay your dulcimer on any piece of wood.  Peter Tommerup just uses a piece of wooden shelving and places his dulcimer on it.  Check it out here .

There are basically two principles here. One is that when you place your dulcimer on your lap, the back cannot vibrate; lift it off your lap and it can, thus producing more volume.  The other principle is that the board the dulcimer sits on can vibrate as well (if it is not on your lap), which will increase sound. That is why putting the dulcimer on a table will increase volume so much.

I would also like to voice my vote against that tiny HoneyTone mini amp. Yes, it is inexpensive. Yes it runs on batteries and travels very well.  But it barely amplifies your sound at all and it is mainly intended for people who want to mimic electric guitar sounds, not those who want to amplify an acoustic sound. I bought one of them, played around with it, and sold it for the price of shipping to someone here at FOTMD. I was so disappointed with it that I would have felt guilty charging the next buyer for it, even at a discounted rate.

Kandee,  I'm the one with the buttons, here at home.  If anyone wants to order FOTMD pin buttons in time for Kentucky music week, they need to order them right NOW , via Paypal, in order for me to get them to you in time through the mail 1st class.   Order them HERE .   If you wait past June 15 to order them, they may not get to you by the weekend of June 24th in time for Kentucky music week.

Robert and Strumelia - I'll get my guitar buddy to try open tuning, and we'll see what happens. Maybe it was the guitar! ;-D

Paula, Enjoy!

Dusty, Yes!!! Thank you! Thank you!!! 

Perhaps this is it, Patty. It's Dulcimerica 194 "Getting the Bends."

 ( check the first fret and see if the length of the first fret is less than the length of the second fret.  The first fret is shorter than the 2nd fret distance and so it is a just intonation)

Wow, is this how we can tell Just intonation on all dulcimers? Is there also a way to tell equal temperament?

Dan, Thanks!!! Yes, I know how to do that with a noter. My friend prefers chord melody style so she would like to learn to bend strings with her fingers. Bing Futch did an excellent video on this but I can't seem to find it.