Forum Activity for @matt-berg

Size of Soundbox and Loudness

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Bob,  you mention that your recent soundboard was thinner than typical at 0.100 inches.  My general target for the soundboard is 3/32, roughly 0.100.  Depending on the ping of the wood, I may stop earlier.  What is your general target for soundboard thickness?

(The attached picture is my current build.  You can see the thickness of the soundboard which is made from recovered white cedar.  All of my builds have the neck suspended over the sound board on a single peg and a true bridge.  This is a double neck, treble and bass.)

updated by @matt-berg: 08/11/20 07:52:09AM

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@bob-stephens -- you are correct -- IF the builder makes (as many modern builders especially of inexpensive dulcimers do) the tuning head and tail string anchor are all one piece with the fretboard.  Especially if the fretboard/head/anchor board is fast-growing flat-sawn, not quarter-sawn, not very hard timber.   

If, as Ken Longfield says, the strings are anchored in the tail block and a tuning head attached to the head block, then there is virtually no string pressure trying to pull up the ends of the fretboard and warp it.  Rather there is a minimal amount of pressure pressing the ends of the fretboard containing the nut and bridge downward and helping keep it flat.

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

If you are going to put a truss rod in I would definitely use an adjustable one- preferably double acting so you can correct in either direction.

I have to respectfully disagree with Ken on the point of the strings not putting a bending load on the neck and even the whole body of the dulcimer.  The approximately 80 pounds of tension does put a bending load on the neck with most designs.  It may transfer through other components, but ultimately the neck is loaded.  I have repaired many dulcimers where the neck is permanently bowed over and eighth of an inch along its length (resulting in raised action that makes them unplayable).  Some of these were built by respected builders whose names I will not mention.  Wood under tension will creep over time.  Carbon fiber and steel (a truss rod) will deflect under load, but do not creep.  

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@dan
VERY cool thanks for sharing!

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 I am noticing a theme in this thread and a few others on here that the quality of the cut of wood and the structure of the design seem to enable some to last much longer than others! Unfortunately I lack quality wood AND knowledge of construction so I might throw a truss rod in my next one bring it out to the coast a couple times and see if it stays straight, probably an adjustable one in case it  doesn't. Thanks for the feedback!

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

This is a very good point I had not considered. A dulcimer with a peghead and tailpiece would probably fare MUCH longer than the sort I have been building, with just a 1"x2"x 32" piece of wood from the hardware store that i glue onto the soundbox, like this one, but I am trying to make more long lasting durable ones going forward. Thanks for the input!
updated by @nate: 08/10/20 08:32:38PM

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Guitars and banjos need truss rods to stabilize the neck because of the pressure from the strings. On most dulcimers the strings are not anchored to the neck but to the peg head and the tail piece With a fret board spanning the length of the sound box, it acts as a truss rod preventing the dulcimer from warping by pulling up at either end. I have a dulcimer I built 46 years ago which has a cantilevered fret board. To keep the fret board from warping, I made it out of three pieces of wood glued together. It is still flat. Unless there is pressure from the strings or the wood used for construction was not well seasoned you should not have any warping on a mountain dulcimer. 

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Nate, I use carbon fiber stiffening in my necks for several reasons.  I strive for very low action, which requires a neck that stays straight within a few thousandths of an inch.  I also think that a stiff neck is good for making a responsive instrument.  Any energy going into flexing the neck is not generating sound. Lastly, I have seen, and personally repaired, too many dulcimers with bowed necks that have made them unplayable.  I would love to get away from using carbon fiber.  It is expensive and there are real health hazards associated with machining it.  Parts done on the cnc router have to be done under water to minimize the risk.  

I have also seen many dulcimers that have survived many decades with no issues.  Design and material selection are probably the keys to success.

Getting back to your original question, if the neck runs the full length of the instrument, a truss rod isn't a bad idea.  They are relatively inexpensive (about $15) and work well to correct any bowing that might start to develop.  The only down side I can see is that they do add some weight to the instrument. 

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

"That makes sense. I am fascinated that there are well preserved dulcimers that old! Do you know where I could find visuals, recordings, or anything like that of dulcimers of that era?"

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Warping can always be an issue with instruments, even $100,000 instruments that travel.  BUT!  "Well kept" is the important thing.  Giving the instrument a chance to acclimate to new surroundings is important.  I once made a dulcimer that fretted perfectly in mile-high Prescott, AZ, but which raised a fret every time I drove 90 miles south and 4000 ft lower in elevation to the Phoenix area.  Drive home again and it was fine.  Such issues are extremely rare with dulcimers.

As Dan said, lutes/guitars are completely different critters than fretted zithers/dulcimers, and guitar problems are rarely found in dulcimers.  The dulcimer fretboard is rigidly attached for its entire length; a lute/guitar neck is just hanging out there, just asking to be affected by everything!   A truss rod on a dulcimer would not be worth the time and effort to make and install.

There are a lot of static photos of 100+ year old dulcimers.  And quite a few such instruments in museum collections like the Hindman, KY museum, the UK museum in Louisville, KY, and the 'opening next year' dulcimer museum that John Hallberg is setting up.  

Our friend Kendra Ward regularly plays an over-100 year old dulcimer that belonged to her grandmother.

IMHO, with dulcimers, things like truss rods, carbon fiber doohickeys and similar space techno things are just not relevant to making an instrument sound good.  If you can do it with well-cured wood, all the hi-tech stuff in the universe won't make your dulcimers any better.  More expensive, but not any better.   Compare -- sight-unseen -- the sound quality of a dulcimer that Dan, or Bobby Ratliff or some of the others build with simple tools; to the modern marvels made with all the hi-tech widgetry available.  The difference is negligible; but all that hi-tech is gonna cost you a LOT more.  

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

That makes sense. I am fascinated that there are well preserved dulcimers that old! Do you know where I could find visuals, recordings, or anything like that of dulcimers of that era?

Also, I know that @bob-stephens uses a carbon fiber beam that reinforces the neck, but that might not be for the same reasons as a truss rod.

Finally I have heard many people say they had to adjust their truss rod on their guitar after travelling and changing elevation or humidity. Is warping an issue for dulcimers that travel a lot?

McSpadden Baritone Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'm looking smaller in terms of the body (depth and length). Both my Folkcraft Customs, including the baritone, have the deeper body, with galax backs. So, they are quite a bit bigger than the McSpadden. Then, throw in their awesome case, and it's just too big for festivals. Plus, they are more of an investment, in case something were to happen. I love, love them for home and playing with others around home, but another McSpadden would be nicer for festivals. Like you said, I know the quality and tone of a McSpadden too. I've just never tried one of their baritones. 

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I've played several traditional pieces well over one hundred years old and no warping issues! The zither is a very different animal than the lute, requiring very different approaches to design.The truss use came about with the introduction of steel strings cir. 1830's ish for the guitars? I don't know of any one using truss rods for dulcimer traditional or contemporary. I'm sure some one has tried about every thing......

Truss Rods?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

How common are truss rods in dulcimers? From what I understand they were historically built out of what was available, so it probably wouldnt be very traditional, but would it be practical? Is warping an issue for dulcimer fingerboards over time as much as it is for guitars, or does the rigid structure of the entire neck being glued to the soundboard prevent this issue mostly? 

McSpadden Baritone Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi @Susie, you have a good memory. I did indeed have a McSpadden baritone for a spell, but was obliged to sell it to raise money (I think I needed a new catalytic converter).  I no longer have the video I posted when I was selling that instrument.  If I remember correctly mine had a redwood top and ebony overlay on the fretboard.  I think the body was walnut.  Mine also had a 1-1/2 fret.

If you already have a McSpadden, you know how consistently playable they are. They also tend to keep their value pretty well in case you have to sell it down the proverbial road sometime.  I'm not sure what advice I can give you.

I have to be honest that I don't think my ear is capable of discerning the differences in tone from different wood types. I can hear the differences between luthiers, but I can't hear the difference between a cherry McSpadden and a walnut McSpadden, for example.  Having come from the guitar, I prefer softwoods (spruce, cedar, redwood) for the tops, but I choose wood for the body based on how it looks. 

When you say you want a McSpadden because it is smaller than the Folkcraft, are you referring to the size of the body?  Both Blue Lion and Ron Gibson make baritones with smaller scale lengths.  Currently I have my Rick Probst dulcimer strung as a baritone, and that is big, in terms of body, VSL, and sound.  I can't imagine lugging that thing to festivals.

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Well thank you.  It has a great tone, and I have a request to build another; not for charity. 

updated by @kusani: 08/10/20 02:37:16PM

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Kusani

Beautiful and generous 

McSpadden Baritone Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I currently have a Folkcraft Custom Baritone Dulcimer. I love everything about it. I'm toying with the idea of getting a McSpadden baritione (because it is smaller), to accompany me to music festivals, where I also take my standard McSpadden.

For those with McSpadden baritones, can you give me your feedback? Dusty, I think you even did a video once of the one you had. Can you share that? For baritones, I lean towards the cherry/cherry or spruce/walnut woods, which I feel works well with the deeper tones. 

updated by @susie: 08/10/20 09:51:03AM

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Something I've been wondering a lot about! For those who lost their jobs or got hours cut, on one hand lots of people are cooped up and student dulcimers are pretty affordable so I could see how it could help sales for student models, but on the other hand many folks are justifiably being more careful with their money.  Some people's careers have not been affected at all by this, but have been seriously limited socially, so that probably amounts to some people with stable income sitting around bored all day looking for new hobbies. I would assume for this reason that the very high end ones may be taking the smallest hit. Also, quarantine has led a lot of people to explore 'DIY projects' so I wonder if companies like Folkcraft or similar kit brands have seen a positive change. Me, I tend to build very low quality dulcimers and just sell them to locals for ~50 bucks to clear up space in my living room! Needless to say I don't have any grasp of the real dulcimer market. Would love to hear more perspectives of people actually selling them. Covid lowering sales would indicate that people are being more cautious with money or simply don't have it, so if that is the consensus, now might be a good time to finish up the video I have been working on geared toward people with minimal woodworking experience for building dirt cheap dulcimers! The video, which is currently dozens of clips I have to learn to edit together, details how to build a craftboard dulcimer for under 15 $ in materials and some simple hand tools nearly everyone should have access to. If people can't afford them now is a great time to learn to make them!

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'm still making a few to donate to charity auctions in our area. The cedar, with ebony overlay on the fretboard, went in an auction that closed last Friday. 

updated by @kusani: 08/09/20 10:06:10PM

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thank you, Dan. That makes perfect sense to me and I appreciate your insight!

Size of Soundbox and Loudness

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Nate,

You always have such great questions.  I wish we had more answers that we know to be absolutely true.  I have a few thoughts based on a recent dulcimer that I just completed.  This is the loudest dulcimer I have ever built by a considerable margin.  It contradicts almost everything I thought I knew about how to make a loud dulcimer.  Since my instruments are non-conventional in design, these comments may not be of much value.  The entire top of the dulcimer is free to vibrate independent of the fretboard since the fretboard is held above it on posts from below.  The top is western red cedar and is thinner than is typical for my dulcimers, about 0.100 inch.  It is braced from below with a modified X-braced pattern.  The strings terminate at the end block.  The bridge just sits on the top.  So acoustically, it is very similar to an X-braced flat top mandolin.  As an aside, mandolins prove that size is not the key factor in making a loud instrument.  This dulcimer also has a double back, which I am pretty sure helps the volume- especially if you play with the dulcimer in your lap.

The big surprises were that this string configuration was louder than terminating the strings at the bridge- guitar style.  One would have thought that the torque put on the top from the guitar type bridge would generate more volume than the slight downforce from the mandolin arrangement.  Apparently not.

The second unexpected result was that blocking off the soundholes completely made no perceptible reduction in the volume.  So there goes the large soundhole theory.  Blocking did affect the tone, however.

I think you are on the right track to keep the vibrating mass as low as possible.  I don't think the total weight of the dulcimer is all that important.  The more soundboard you can get into play will likely help too.  Fretboards that are in contact with the top for its entire length put severe limitations on volume and tone.  I know that this is the way it has traditionally been done, but if you want to break away from result that is typically achieved, you will probably have to strike off in a new direction.  I applaud your attempts to push the envelope.  Please continue to push the rest of us and share your results.

Tab for Slan Le Maigh?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Oh Marsha! Thank you so much! That was great! When I look at the sheet music, there is indeed a lot of repeats. Keep going girlfriend! Can't wait to hear it all!!

worldwide Play Music on the Porch Day

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

So, you'll be all ready to celebrate the day, @don-grundy !  Happy strumming!

worldwide Play Music on the Porch Day

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have my T-shirt from last year.

worldwide Play Music on the Porch Day

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Friends, worldwide Play Music on the Porch Day is always the last Saturday in August.  So, 29 August is the day!  Mark & I have been practicing the song we will do on the holiday and hope our friends will make homemade music on the day, too:)

updated by @robin-thompson: 06/29/21 03:43:21PM

Tab for Slan Le Maigh?

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

I love this tune too and when I saw your post about anyone trying this song, I put it on my “to do” list. Today I worked out the 1st 8 measures, which then repeat to play a verse. The chorus which has 18 measures is a lot harder and I need more time to work that out. 

I have attached a rough recording of those 1st 8 measures. Let me know if you think they fit. I played very slow and did not add and extra picks so you could hopefully hear the chord for each note. Tuned to DAD,  I used a score in the key of A and transposed it to key of D. This tune is played in 4-4 and also in 3-4 time.... my version is 4-4.

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

...including a very LARGE project, wouldn't you say, Dan?

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Less sales, I think folks are holding on to their money for good reason. I'm still active in the Dulcimore Den, just working on my own projects!

What happened to 6 photos I tried to upload yesterday?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Hi Strumelia and Dusty,

Thanks for your responses!

I trust it will prove to be a one time glitch. I didn't know there was a limit of 6/day until I tried to add a 7th. It appeared on the list but was shaded. I wasn't able (or didn't try long enough) to remove it, so it being there when I tried to load the rest was probably the thing that did it.

I'll just retry them, and stop at five just to be on the safe side!

thanks again,

Leo 

Dulcimer sales in 2020

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I have recently rejoined this wonderful forum and I am curious about how Mountain Dulcimer sales may be going this year both new and used. Most sites I have browsed seem to have lower inventory than I recall from before. That could mean higher sales with reduced available inventory or it could mean slower sales have resulted in reduced stock and overhead. I have no idea but just curious what you may think. I am certain our members who are builders could shed some light on this if they choose to do so.  

What happened to 6 photos I tried to upload yesterday?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Hi Leo!  Sorry to keep you waiting here for a response from me.

Dusty is correct when he said there is no 'approval' needed for images added by members.

There is however a limit of up to 6 images/photos per day to be added. The file size of your images should not be a problem since you describe them as being less than 1MB each.

There is a total limit of 200 images for each member. That's because I have to pay for the server here and if everyone added hundreds of photos I'd have to spend a lot more paying for a larger server to host all those photo albums. For that reason I avoid having FOTMD become an archive to host people's files, music, and photos.
For hundreds of photos, there are good sites that house photos online and then you could simply post a link here so FOTMD members could go see them on your site, as Dusty suggested. I'm sure your photos are wonderful and everyone here would enjoy them immensely!  You should consider uploading all your historic dulcimer photos to a site you control, where you can make certain albums public or private, and organize them as you like. Photobucket or Google Photos comes to mind, but I'm no expert.

I see that you posted a first photo successfully, and it's still there.  As Dusty suggests, you should post another photo or two to see if it works.  I think you have to post one at a time. Maybe once you hit the limit over 6 it aborted the whole group you were trying to upload. Your photos were not removed or restricted, except maybe because you were trying to upload more than 6 in a day. I can at least assure you that nobody deleted them.   :)   Thanks, and happy to have you here with us!

What happened to 6 photos I tried to upload yesterday?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Leo, I don't think approvals are needed for photos.  I might be wrong, but I think photos normally appear immediately.  There was no delay on that first one you posted, was there?  My guess is there is some other tech snafu at play here.

Why not try re-posting one of the six that has disappeared? Let's see what happens.

What happened to 6 photos I tried to upload yesterday?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Thanks. Yeah I can imagine there being too much of a good thing (all at once). 

Maybe I'll do something like that and just post a few now and then on FotMD, highlights, w link, as you suggest. 

But just for info: Is it normal to wait a day or so for approval and appearance of pix?? Or, is it more likely it didn't work, in which case I could just try it again. (I didn't notice how long the dulci-dog picture took.) 

In any case, for now, I'll hold off and see what Strumelia says. Maybe she just hasn't had a chance to flick whatever magic switch is involved...

What happened to 6 photos I tried to upload yesterday?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Hi Leo,

Other than the first one, I don't see any evidence of photos you posted either. We'll have to wait for Strumelia to see if she has any more behind-the-scenes knowledge.

I won't go into details about why the 6-photo daily limit was instituted, but you can imagine what might have happened to justify that policy.  If you really want to upload dozens (or hundreds) of photos all at once, perhaps you could use Photobucket or some other cloud space and then link to them here.  Otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing a slow trickle of your photos over a period of time rather than a monsoon all at once.

Sorry I can't be of any more help.

What happened to 6 photos I tried to upload yesterday?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Hi All,

Perhaps this is more of a tech question than a forum discussion, but this seems the only way to ask a question. If there's a way to contact moderators and such I'm not seeing it. (But I'm a cyber-moron.)

I have many, many (hundreds of) historic photos of dulcimer and players, mostly from the 80s, including many makers and players no longer with us. I've spent hours and hours digitizing them with hopes of being able to share with people who will be interested.

I tried to upload several yesterday (8/4/20) up to the limit of 6 per day. Now I don't see any sign of them, either on my own pages or generally.

If they're still waiting approval, I understand that, but the fact I don't see them, nor any record of having submitted them, leads me to want to verify.

Also, at six per day, I could be uploading for a couple months. So I wonder if perhaps you really don't want people to post "too many" photos. I can always post them on my own site, but thought most folks here would find them interesting and I'm happy to share them. I'm not trying to hog or dominate the galleries, I just have a lot of interesting mountain dulcimer pictures to potentially share. 

These are high quality, edited images, showing not just historic makers and players, but covering the incredible range of variation in dulcimers, with many unusual instruments, details of soundholes, pegheads, inlays, and also pix of dulcimer precursors like sheitholts and the langleik. I have reduced all in size to 400 - 600 kb.

Please advise! Thank you,

Leo Kretzner

PS: I did start to add a seventh before getting the message there was a limit of 6. Did this perhaps invalidate the first six?? 

The Mountain Minor movie

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

We've seen most of John Sayles' films, including Matewan.

The Mountain Minor movie

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

There are plenty of films about mountain miners as well.  Have you ever seen Matewan?

I'm glad you enjoyed the film.  The music is pretty special.

The Mountain Minor movie

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

We watched the film on Amazon Prime. Had a laugh because Brian couldn't find it for the longest time until I pointed out that he was searching for "mountain miner" instead of "mountain minor". 

We definitely enjoyed it!  The music was great.  Enjoyed seeing Dan Gellert playing 'old' Charlie... Dan is considered one of the top five current living oldtime musician fiddlers. He's amazing.  Elizabeth LaPrelle's ballad singing was magical.  And the little kid playing young Charlie was wonderful.

I might not ever have noticed this movie- thanks Dusty! 

Virtual Dulcimer Festival Site

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

The limits of geographic distance (and its expenses involved in terms of food, gas, and lodging) don't apply with online festivals and their workshops, so it's a bargain! Many of these online festivals even include communal slots where folks can have fun meeting in a zoom room and getting to know one another during lunch periods and in between workshops and concerts!

People should definitely look into attending various dulcimer online festivals across the country now that distance doesn't limit them!