Forum Activity for @john-p

Hi Gayle,

One finger up and down the melody string here(same as noter/drone, but without the stick),

Play almost entirely by ear and need the tune in my head before I can go anywhere, tra la la, or dum de dum is enough, just something to give me the notes and the rhythm. Songs are often easiest, the words give you something to hang the tune on.
I did teach myself enough SMN to sort out the mode and some sort of fret order, but I still need to hear it by ear, I'm not good at sorting out the rhythm and stuff yet. What a god awful system that SMN is BTW, whoever designed it needs shooting :)

Once I've got the tune in my head(or part of it anyway) it goes -

Take aim, Close your eyes, Dive in.

Taking aim
===========

So I start noodling around trying to fit what's in my head to the fretboard. Sometimes just a couple of notes, how it starts, or maybe a little phrase that works, something to anchor you to the fretboard. If you've got it right then the other notes kind of fall into place. Experience, and loads of trying out, will gradually start to tell you what's going to work and what's not,
First thing I try and find is the Home fret, where the tune is going to end. This tells me the mode and tuning and all that sort of stuff. Next I find where the tune starts and then if there are any intervals that aren't being used(gaps in the scale), this tells me what other Home frets might work.

Closing your eyes.
==================
Not literally, but you've got to get your head out of the way now. Actually closing your eyes can help here as it forces you to play by feel a bit more and stops your damn brain trying to get in on the act all the time, it already had it's turn when you were taking aim. You'll never play from your heart if your head keeps getting in the way.

Dive in.
=========
Just go for it.
This is where all the mystical stuff comes in and people start talking about opening up the higher chakras, getting out of the moving centre, allowing the chi to flow, and Jedi Masters like Randy tell you to trust in the Force.
Those that can do this are the musicians we valued the most, They don't play the music, the music plays them.

When I'm re-remembering a tune I know well it usually goes like this - first time through it goes reasonably well, second time through my brain want's to get involved and it all breaks up, third time through it starts to pull into shape.

Here's an actual example I've just started working on, this is something I heard on the radio and then dug up on youtube.

I was attracted to this in the first place as the sentiment is gentle, it's the song of a dreamer and sounds not quite fully in this world.
So, I listen to it a few times. Next I try to strip out everything but the melody, so follow the voice or the flute or the whistle, and end up with something like 'In the summer we'll go walking, la la la together, dum de dum de dum' in my head.
Next I noodle around looking for the home fret and find it at the 2nd. Very odd this, that's Locrian. closer examination shows it's gapped at the 2nd and 5th so will also fit in Phrygian(5th fret) and Aeolian(1st fret). Probably the missing dominant that gives it the slightly detatched feel.
So that's the brain almost satisfied, I can work the link from lower to higher register, but haven't quite got the bridge back from higher to lower yet(taking aim).
Next comes trying to get a better feeling for the rhythem and the flow of the tune(closing your eyes). then trying to get the whole thing to work(diving in).

john

Gayle, I'm a 'by ear' player 99.9% of the time-- since I am a noter/drone player, all I have to worry about is being in the right key, getting the melody down, and most importantly, getting the rhythm right. The .1% comes in if I happen to be with a group of people and we all are trying to learn/play a specific piece of music a specific way so I struggle to read from paper; this rarely happens, though.

I'd like to learn to read SMN for playing an instrument, bowed dulcimer particularly.

Hi Gayle,

Yep - Playing by ear is a skill rather than a tallent. And some folk will find it easy than others to learn just like any other skill. A few good teaching points and the motivation to practice will speed up the process - just the same as learning anything else.

I think that TABs are probably very good for picking up a chord melody arrangement of a tune (a bit like a Travis picking arrangement for guitar). I see lots of post from folk saying "Oh I just love such and such a tune; does anyone have the TAB?" In other words, they know ofthe tune already (froma CD or the radio etc for example Candle in the Wind by Elton John)but are looking for a dulcimer arrangement of it. SMN would be pretty complex for a chord melody arrangement, so TABs show someones dulcimer arrangement in a simpler form.

SMN is good for tunes that you don't know at all or don't know well enough to whistle. For noter drone I think it is better than TAB all round because of the reasons I gave above. And for chord melody I sort of prefer to work out my own arrangement using just the melody as a basis. Hence TAB has really passed me by.

Well, well, another thread which should generate some great responses! I learn by ear a lot of what I play. Indeed, I feel more comfortable more quickly when I learn by ear. However, you can make mistakes by mishearing or misremembering some of the notes. That's where you talk about "regional differences" in tunes (works particularly well for fiddle tunes not so much for a Johnny Cash song.) Training your ear is, like Robin said, not difficult and well worth it. Start with a simple tune you know well but have never played on the dulcimer; then find the notes. In fact, if you like Johnny Cash a lot of his songs meet the criteria of "simple tune."

The next best way for ME is SMN. I just learned O'Carolan's "Lord Inchiquin" from SMN in G and played in D. I think Robin's mention of intervals brings up a great thing which happens (I think) to at least many dulcimists who read music: you quit thinking in terms of note (a, b, g#) rather you think about the interval between the notes (1, 2, 7.) Then it's easy to transfer the SMN, no matter what key it's in, the dulcimer, no matter what tuning it's in.

Lastly, I hate tab. I hated it on the guitar; I hated it on the banjo; I hate it on the dulcimer. But.... I use it when that's all that's available. Now, I don't mind tab below the SMN. I think of that as the fingering indications on classical guitar music: read the note, get an idea of where it should be played on the fingerboard.

There you go. My 2 centavos! Have fun

Rob

Hi Gayle,

I would say 90% of my playing is by ear and about 10% from startdard sheet music (fiddle tune books usually). I never use TAB.

As your experience develops you will find it easier and easier to work by ear. It just takes practice to begin to hear intervals (the tune rising and falling) and note lenghts. Your ear will become more discriminating and pick up the fine nuances in the music you are listeneing to. BUT it does take specific practice!!!!! Youcould startby picking tunes off the CDs that come with the tune books you have and see how far you can get without looking at the music. It is much easier to do the combination of hearing the tune and reading the TAB, so many folk don't move beyond this as they put no time into specific ear training. My wife started playing fiddle about 3 years ago and would do exactly what you do (CD abd written music). She said that she couldn't play by ear. I callenged her (a dangerous thing ) to tell me how many hours she had actually put into practicing playing by ear!!! Of course, she hadn't actually done much more than tried it a couple of times and then taken the easy route. Now she can sit in on a session and pick up tunes by ear.

A similar thing happens with reading music. The idea behind music is that you don't have to hear the tune on CD, you 'hear' what's written on the page - rather than 'read' what's written on the page. So when I use sheet music I'm not looking see what note this or that dot is and then say 'That's an F#so in this tuning it is at the 2nd fret'. I'm hearing the melody (singing it, humming it or hearing it in my head) as I scan across the page. I use sheet music to play by ear! Again it is just a skill that needs some specific practice time. I will take music books up to bed and practice reading/hearing tunes without my dulcimer. I'm not very good at it yet but I can pick out basic new melodies. And I can use the sheet music to reinforce a tunes that I'm learning. So I can practice my dulcimer playing, in silence, without my dulcimer - a useful skill. It also means that I can sight transpose to some extent using this method. As I'm only interested in the melody intervals and note lenghts I can read a tune in the key of G but play it in say the key of A or D.

You are at a great stating point, matching the written tune to the heard tune. I would suggest that you really put some time into both skills of learning by ear and learning to 'hear' written sheet music as in the long run these skills will really help your playing.

Robin

Take the ox off your Sox and you're a fan of the Reds.
Hey, I want the Yankees to lose, too.

Dusty Turtle said:

As a Red Sox fan since before I can remember, I am indeed routing for a team this year: whoever is playing the Yankees.

I know there are Yankees fans out there. But I guess some people wanted Goliath to beat David, too.

Actually, a lot of the games have been really exciting this year. And here in Northern Cal we had two teams in the run, with the As a genuine cinderella team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. My wife is a Giants fan, so our house is black and orange and not because of Halloween.

As a Red Sox fan since before I can remember, I am indeed routing for a team this year: whoever is playing the Yankees.

I know there are Yankees fans out there. But I guess some people wanted Goliath to beat David, too.

Actually, a lot of the games have been really exciting this year. And here in Northern Cal we had two teams in the run, with the As a genuine cinderella team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. My wife is a Giants fan, so our house is black and orange and not because of Halloween.

Well the Nats snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. Congratulations to the Cards. I'm sure you are happy Sue

That would have been the best casescenario. Oh well, maybe next year.

Robin Thompson said:

You know I wanted the Reds to win the division and the Pirates to win the wild card.

Jim Fawcett said:

Well, all I can say after 20 years of having a losing season with the Pirates, Let's go Nats!

You know I wanted the Reds to win the division and the Pirates to win the wild card.

Jim Fawcett said:

Well, all I can say after 20 years of having a losing season with the Pirates, Let's go Nats!

Well, all I can say after 20 years of having a losing season with the Pirates, Let's go Nats!

Patty, as a Reds' fan I've been pulling for the Nats to defeat the Cards!

Patty from Virginia said:

Robin, If the Washington Nationals win Friday night, I don't know what I'll do. I'll either get excited that our area finally has a winning team (been a long dry spell; although, hockey team has been okay) or I'll faint from the shock of it all

Robin, If the Washington Nationals win Friday night, I don't know what I'll do. I'll either get excited that our area finally has a winning team (been a long dry spell; although, hockey team has been okay) or I'll faint from the shock of it all

A most appropriate post, Carrie!

Carrie Barnes said:

Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright,
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light;
And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout,
But there is no joy in Mudville: Mighty Casey has struck out.

Leonard, this pretty much sums it up for me.................

Robin, smog?

For your dear wife's sake, Leonard, it is good to not watch games sometimes.

I watch no Reds' games-- we don't get cable tv and live in the boondocks where few channels can be got.

Leonard Griffin said:

Robin, if we could figure that out it would not hurt so bad. Like Carrie says we Texas Rangers fans have been disappointed again for the third time. I sometimes have had to not watch games for awhile, my wife says I get to hard to live with , and my blood pressure I am sure goes up!!

Robin, if we could figure that out it would not hurt so bad. Like Carrie says we Texas Rangers fans have been disappointed again for the third time. I sometimes have had to not watch games for awhile, my wife says I get to hard to live with , and my blood pressure I am sure goes up!!

Oh, Carrie! How in the world did the Reds win the first two games of the series in SF then lose 3 at home?

Anybody cheering for a team in baseball's post-season?

Robin "Go, Reds!" Thompson

My hat's off to you, David!

My husband and I also have played 'out' to help in overcoming stage fright. It helps.

Wow! Good for you for playing great and not succumbing to stage fright. That is a BIG deal!!! You played great!

Cheryl

I have stage fright sometimes as well. You did a great job!

Great job David!

Hey David, well done !!! You have done something I never will, congratulations !

JohnH

Very proud of you David!

Surprisingly I did think (sort of)to smile. That is one comment that is always made from time to time in our group: when people play on stage they are so focused they forget to smile.

David, you did GREAT. With all that pressure in front of judges, on a stage...I would have made mistakes for sure!

Not only did you not make any mistakes, but you smiled too!

David, that's great! I think that's a winner . Thanks for sharing.

Friday night I entered the Mountain Dulcimer competition at the 2012 Tennessee Valley Old Time Fiddlers Convention http://www.tvotfc.com[/url . It was my first time entering a competition. I did not enter to win so much as to overcome my extreme stage fright. Generally I avoid all public speaking (or non-speaking) type activities. Here I am playing Ode To Joy

Der dulcimer sounds goodto me

Wout

this is a 30 page thread in the making

Nice to see that my question still brings joy to some people even more than two weeks after I had started this thread...

As to my grammer problem: despite the standard "Duden" dictionary says "die Dulcimer" (fem.), most of the mountain dulcimer players I am in contact with here in Germany (and some standard musicology books on instruments) seem to say "der Dulcimer" (masc.), so I am in good company when I stick with that as well. Wilfried Ulrich is of course an important authority as well.

Thanks to all who contributed their thoughts to this (maybe peculiar but hopefully not annoying) discussion...

CB, what is this about 'another on the way', lol GF, tryin to catch up to Dana

Carrie Barnes said:

ROFL Dusty, I have to agree w/the full figure woman comment! Goschi, I always refer to my dulcimers a she, her, "the ladies", etc. And like Dusty have named everyone of mine, tho no boys in the crowd as yet. Andi Waywego, Lily Langtree, and Mae West for starters, another on the way, will have to wait and see what she's like before naming her!

Goschi, you had me at "Sack" is masculine, lol, can't stop laughing

I'm another that refers to dulcimers as "it". In German, since the dulcimer derived from the general zitter (most probably NOT specifically the scheitholt, in spite of Praetorius) I would use the feminine form...

I refer to them as its. What is it? It's a dulcimer. Though some of mine are given feminine names, others are neutral as to sex. Der, Die or Das? DAS

Goshi,

I think you could ask Ulricus. I think he is a member of this forum too. He is German, well, at least Ost-Frisian, and somebody who wrote about the dulcimer and more specific about the Hummle.

I know in English the gender of a word isn't important, but in written German, specific the more serious writings, it is. I think Ulricus has been through this too...

See http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/main/search/search?q=ulricus

Wout

Excellent research, BRAshley!

B. Ross Ashley said:

That would be dulse , Benjamin, with an s, not a c. [Scottish Gaelic duileasg , from Old Irish duilesc .] at The Free Dictionary , it's not got anything to do with sweetness.

That would be dulse , Benjamin, with an s, not a c. [Scottish Gaelic duileasg , from Old Irish duilesc .] at The Free Dictionary , it's not got anything to do with sweetness.

Benjamin W Barr Jr said:

Wow! What an interesting thread! I should sharpen up my linguistics should I have a mind to enter into this tale that is being woven.

I recall trying to search out the meaning or origin of dulcimer. Somewhere (perhaps it was over the rainbow?) I read that the word dulce was German and meant sweet. I suppose it could be Latin and Greek as Goschi states.

Anyway, I think that I concluded sweet for Dulce and that the other half would be music, so I like to think of it as "sweet music".

However, to throw something else that I don't know the exact origin to is that my cousins from New Brunswick, Canada call seaweed Dulce. I have tried it and find it is anything but sweet! Of course, my cousins look at me as if I"m kinda strange , especially not only because I don't like "dulce" but that I don't drink my tea with milk!

Well, that's my tale and I'm sticking to it...until a better one comes along!

Check out this story about why B.B. King named his guitar "Lucille":

Ah, thank you Rob - that is a really strong argument for using the masculine article! I've visited his website before and the instruments he makes look beautiful. And there's also a picture comparing a woman's shape with that of an hourglass dulcimer!