Thanks for listening Cynthia, and by 'bumping it up' giving Lexie the chance to hear it !

John

Very beautiful John, it is nice hearing them played differently.

I really love the sound played with the noter and the tuning.

This is so lovely I thought it needed to come forward again. Please so the Wexford Carol noter/drone, it's so interesting hearing them played different ways.

"they're never quite exactly in tune with each other"

I once played on stage while at the 'Original Dulcimers Players' in Evart, Mich., in company with 180 plus HD players, having spent a considerable time previously making sure my instrument was properly tuned.......................lol !

John

"I thought that you would ! Just out of interest, I almost always do on my HD that which you have described happening on your accordian. That is have the two strings on each course very slightly 'out of tune' with each other. Again I suppose, a case of 'beauty being in the eye/ear of the beholder/listener"

In my experience, if you have two things in an instrument playing exactly the same note, exactly in tune with each other, then there's virtually no affect on the volume of the note produced. But if they're slightly apart in their tuning then you do get an increase in volume, and this increase is more the further apart they are.

I would guess in a stringed instrument like a dulcimer with double melody string, then although you tune them the same, they're never quite exactly in tune with each other and that as you strike them with a plectrum, you don't sound the strings exactly together so the soundwaves produced will be slightly staggered? Just a thought. If that's right, then the closer together your strings are the less benefit you will get from having a double string in the first place - so if you have 4 string equidistant placing of the strings, but you fret the two strings nearest you with your noter, the melody will be much louder than if you have an actual double melody string.

I've just looked out the recording - I converted it to digital a while back - and fortunately it was the first track. It's called `The song of the ass' and the blurb on the LP cover says `This is from a play given at Beauvais in the 12th century and whilst it was sung a young girl representing the Virgin Mary, with a child in her arms rode an ass into the Cathedral and up to the altar'. It is in Latin though, but they don't give a Latin title for it.

"it's more or less the same as a track I have on an old LP of medieval music. But not exactly the same either". John, is it named 'Orientus Partibus' ?

JohnH

Now Val, what's the name of that stone set high in a castle wall somewhere in Ireland ???

thank you for listening

John

You have a way of making blondes sing sweet. 'Tis the power you have over them, and not just blondes.

I thought that you would ! Just out of interest, I almost always do on my HD that which you have described happening on your accordian. That is have the two strings on each course very slightly 'out of tune' with each other. Again I suppose, a case of 'beauty being in the eye/ear of the beholder/listener !

John

Thanks John - I know what you mean now. I guess I've been making instruments tuned like this for years. In my case bagpipes. Many pipe makers tune their instruments to Just Intonation, where every note is harmonically in tune with the base note of the pipes, but the pipes I make have to play in tune with this, the six finger note, but also with the drones tuned up a note to the 5 finger note. So I tune my pipes slightly off Just Intonation to allow this to work.

In my experience there's no problem playing with other instruments - I regularly do so with accordeons, melodeons, harp, whistles and flutes, ukulele etc. Some of your notes may differ, even by quite a lot, but it doesn't seem to matter. It's worth bearing in mind that with instruments such as the accordeon, where every note is made by 2 reeds sounding, one of the reeds will be tuned to A-440 but the other reed can be up to 10 cents sharp, depending on how `wet' the tuning is. So basically an accordeon has been designed to play out of tune! I once replaced a broken reed in my own accordeon and it was tuned in unison with the other reed and it sounded pathetic until I got at with a grindstone.

Thanks Randy, lol! There are old manuscripts lying around in libraries over here whichhave some good old Anglo Saxon in their content, the type which calls a spade a spade and further more tells one where to put it, if you get my drift ? Have a word with folkfan, who obviously 'went exploring' ( all in the interests of musicology, you understand ? ) I believe her cheeks may have returned to a more natural hue by now.

best wishes

John

Hi John ! thanks for the comment on the tune, yes,I do believe it to be old in origin, I came it upon courtesy of one Maddy Prior !!! As for your question, I'm fairly certain you will already know the answer,abeit not precisely as I now state. At this stage I would like to say that I am no musical scholar, (tho I have a son who is!) and in fact have little or no formal musical background whatsoever! I 'know what I know,' and 'play what I play', no doubt much to the disgust of some,lol, tho it pleases me ? Thus Ihave no intention of entering into long discourses on whether my answer is 'right or wrong'!!! Here goes then (yet again!) Mean tone temperament offers increased harmoniousness, and as I understand it was the temperament which came into use in Europe for about 150 years starting 1700 ish, and enables much more harmonious music to be played than the present equal temperament allows. Handel wrote for the mean tone, and much of Bach's ecclesiastical compositions were written for this system. A diatonic scale played to sound most pleasing to the natural ear leads us to the 'natural' scales so often found on older dulcimers, giving rich natural major thirds, while still maintaining the ability to play well tuned in several keys, especially keys adjacent on the circle of fifths, such as A,D,G and C. Although many feel that mean-tone dulcimers sound great played solo, the question always ariseswhether such instruments can play in tune with other instruments - and for those instruments which do not have fixed pitches (violin, fretless banjo, and certainly the human voice) the answer is yes.

Rick Fogel wrote a very informative article on this subject in an issue of the DPN, I think about 1987/8, and subseqently respected builder Sam Rizzetta wrote similar articlesfor the same publication, I'm guessing about the 2000 mark? It was these later articles that set me building mean tone dulciers of both types. Fellow member here, John Shaw has endorsed the sound ofmy instruments, as did the late, great, Roger Nicolson.

I hope this in part offers some answers ?

beat wishes

John

Like this John Henry!...not very bawdy however... : )....

Thank you Macy Jayne ! (and all done without any asistance from a paper bag )

John

Hi John - I'm sure this has been explained on FOTMD many times before - but what exactly do you mean by `mean tone'?

By the way, enjoyed the tune - it's more or less the same as a track I have on an old LP of medieval music. But not exactly the same either.

Thank you John Henry, I enjoyed watching this in the morning.

Cheryl, and Dusty ! Thank you for the comments, I am pleased with the instrument, it has potential. Its still very new and a bit like new shoes , will improve after a bit of wear, but I know that it is true all the way up the fretboard, the action is good, and it plays well either when using chords or a noter. Just need to make a final decision on strings, and it might even be 'the one' we all strive to find, lol

This is really nice, John. Your noter technique is exceptional, as you really get some nuanced sounds. And I like the mix of single notes and full strums. The dulcimer has a nice tone, too.

Fantastic!! So enjoyed this....that dulcimer sounds marvelous.