I agree! It's excellent information. Makes life so much easier!
07/14/13 04:44:06PM @guy-babusek:
Linda, I think Linda B makes it so much easier to find all the chords. The hallmark of an excellent teacher is being able to communicate complex concepts in a simple and concise manner. And that's exactly what she has done! Most musicians are not interested in the theory so much. That's why I moved that conversation over to the theory board so we theory geeks can hash it out there without giving the rest of you headaches.
Also, regarding "diatonic" you are correct that WESTERN music is MOSTLY diatonically based. However, theorists are in disagreement as to whether the harmonic or melodic minor scales are truly diatonic since they must be chromatically altered... some say because the pure minor is implied that it is diatonic, and other say no because there is chromatic alteration it's only partially diatonic. Interesting I suppose. Also many theorists will say that any music that has chromatic alterations is not diatonic, it's chromatic.
Right. Linda said she made a mistake an mislabeled the 6+ barre chord as a diminished erroneously. That opened up an interesting discussion about why the diminished chord is not part of the dulcimer.. and we took that to the theory corner. It's really a very interesting topic, and I'm glad you brought it up, Wout!
Well, my point is when explaining something to someone, please tell it right
In daily life I am a schoolteacher. I always listen what is explained to me. The interpreter takes the listener by the mental hand, otherwise there is no learning.
Guy, you write about facts. Playing a 6+ bar isnt a diminished chord, so it shouldnt be called that.
If diminished chords arent important, why talk about them? Why walk on a slippery slope?
I dont write Linda is wrong in the whole story; it is just one remark. The video is a high class production: everything told in a good quite way, for sure. I love her observation on the hand shapes: its a well known experience to all of us when investigating the Mountain dulcimer. Awareness about chord shapes is very important to improvise on the Mountain dulcimer. Using only 3 strings in 2 different tunings (1=8) AND a diatonic fret board (BTW the scales we use in our music are always diatonic) makes it possible. The harmony is there! Just like playing pentatonic scales.
Anyway, dulcimer thinking is realizing a CGc tuning doesnt mean the whole instrument is tuned into C, because the middle string is tuned Ito G and that is the key G. In the melody it is seldom noticed because when playing a descending tune and one reaches the c note (0) one steps over to the middle string and plays the 2 to produce the B.
Ever wondered why the Mountain dulcimer is the only one in the family of the zithers which all (3) strings under fretted where the rest has only the melody strings, besides the Alpine or Concert zither? I am still searching for the answer
That was my point as well, Carrie. The concepts are brilliant. I've never needed at vii chord.... I play traditional tunes on my dulcimer and they don't call for it...
And you did a wonderful job Linda. I thought the video was very well done, and your concepts really help people understand how the shapes will help them quickly name the chords they are needing to play.
Wout, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. DIatonic music is what it is regardless of what instrument you are playing it with. A barre 6+ chord is not a vii chord in a major scale. It is an open fifth. a vii chord is always a diminished chord. What IS true, is that the vii chord is rarely if ever played in dulcimer music.
07/14/13 10:09:19AM @linda-jo-brockinton:
I will also add that I see many many more players that have had no music , find the dulcimer and are happy as a lark that they can play anything and want to keep it simple. I'm always looking for ways to make their playing easier and there understanding of the chords they need to play with easier.
07/14/13 09:38:40AM @linda-jo-brockinton:
My whole point of the video is to simplify this for new students. I was showing them the bar chords. I haven't needed a B dim in 25 yrs of playing. Most people don't care. They just want to play music and the chord shapes enable them to play faster , especially those who have a good ear but don't know music. I was a flutest. Never took piano or a stringed instrument. So when I started I avoided chord classes at all cost tho I knew from couple of yrs of theory the basics and could spend time finding them if I needed them . And when I did get in a chord class i I was lost as a goose . When I finally did fig out that most of the available chords are in the chord shapes and a certain finger tells the name of the chord, IN MOST CASES, it made it very easy for me to just play and not have to look for the 1-3-5 and the flatted 3rds etc. there are those who are on a need to know why basis. Most in my 15 yrs of teaching just zone out at the talk of chords and theory. One student said when you say chord that's the last thing I hear. I started at the bottom and worked my way up. I remember the feelings all along the way which I think is what makes a good teacher. But in mix tuning when I found the chord shapes , realized we only had 7 notes and that the shapes make all the possible chords with 7 notes it was heaven . Sorry I messed up this chord, appreciate the correction and have already changed on my chord teaching sheet.
07/14/13 03:40:55AM @wout-blommers:
Guy, that is theoretical music thinking, not dulcimer thinking. When playing B-F#-B, one plays a part of a chord, and only the tonica and the fifth. The third is missing, so one can't tell its gender, like major or minor. Playing a diminished chord on any chromatic instrument would be B-D-F-Ab.So 6+/6+/6+ is a B power chord (no gender) and 6+/6/6+ is a B dim, allthough in chording I suggest 6+/6/8 would do a better job. 6+/6+/8 is B minor. In short, there is never a F# in B diminished...
Lol Guy not Gut sorry.
Thanks Ann and Lexie and thanks Gut for the chart. happy Holidays to All.
Here's one, Ann:
Thank you Sue. Hope it was helpful. Enjoy your journey!
So helpful..
Very clear and easy to understand. Thanks for that Linda Jo.
I agree! It's excellent information. Makes life so much easier!
Linda, I think Linda B makes it so much easier to find all the chords. The hallmark of an excellent teacher is being able to communicate complex concepts in a simple and concise manner. And that's exactly what she has done! Most musicians are not interested in the theory so much. That's why I moved that conversation over to the theory board so we theory geeks can hash it out there without giving the rest of you headaches.
Also, regarding "diatonic" you are correct that WESTERN music is MOSTLY diatonically based. However, theorists are in disagreement as to whether the harmonic or melodic minor scales are truly diatonic since they must be chromatically altered... some say because the pure minor is implied that it is diatonic, and other say no because there is chromatic alteration it's only partially diatonic. Interesting I suppose. Also many theorists will say that any music that has chromatic alterations is not diatonic, it's chromatic.
Right. Linda said she made a mistake an mislabeled the 6+ barre chord as a diminished erroneously. That opened up an interesting discussion about why the diminished chord is not part of the dulcimer.. and we took that to the theory corner. It's really a very interesting topic, and I'm glad you brought it up, Wout!
Well, my point is when explaining something to someone, please tell it right
In daily life I am a schoolteacher. I always listen what is explained to me. The interpreter takes the listener by the mental hand, otherwise there is no learning.
Guy, you write about facts. Playing a 6+ bar isnt a diminished chord, so it shouldnt be called that.
If diminished chords arent important, why talk about them? Why walk on a slippery slope?
I dont write Linda is wrong in the whole story; it is just one remark. The video is a high class production: everything told in a good quite way, for sure. I love her observation on the hand shapes: its a well known experience to all of us when investigating the Mountain dulcimer. Awareness about chord shapes is very important to improvise on the Mountain dulcimer. Using only 3 strings in 2 different tunings (1=8) AND a diatonic fret board (BTW the scales we use in our music are always diatonic) makes it possible. The harmony is there! Just like playing pentatonic scales.
Anyway, dulcimer thinking is realizing a CGc tuning doesnt mean the whole instrument is tuned into C, because the middle string is tuned Ito G and that is the key G. In the melody it is seldom noticed because when playing a descending tune and one reaches the c note (0) one steps over to the middle string and plays the 2 to produce the B.
Ever wondered why the Mountain dulcimer is the only one in the family of the zithers which all (3) strings under fretted where the rest has only the melody strings, besides the Alpine or Concert zither? I am still searching for the answer
That was my point as well, Carrie. The concepts are brilliant. I've never needed at vii chord.... I play traditional tunes on my dulcimer and they don't call for it...
Because the middle string is tuned to G, 6.5 plays an F#. The F required for the tritone is on fret 6.
B major or B minor... there is no third... but it is a perfect fifth from bass to middle string... a diminished chord would be a tri tone.
So is it a B Major if it is a bar 61/2?
And you did a wonderful job Linda. I thought the video was very well done, and your concepts really help people understand how the shapes will help them quickly name the chords they are needing to play.
Wout, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. DIatonic music is what it is regardless of what instrument you are playing it with. A barre 6+ chord is not a vii chord in a major scale. It is an open fifth. a vii chord is always a diminished chord. What IS true, is that the vii chord is rarely if ever played in dulcimer music.
I will also add that I see many many more players that have had no music , find the dulcimer and are happy as a lark that they can play anything and want to keep it simple. I'm always looking for ways to make their playing easier and there understanding of the chords they need to play with easier.
My whole point of the video is to simplify this for new students. I was showing them the bar chords. I haven't needed a B dim in 25 yrs of playing. Most people don't care. They just want to play music and the chord shapes enable them to play faster , especially those who have a good ear but don't know music. I was a flutest. Never took piano or a stringed instrument. So when I started I avoided chord classes at all cost tho I knew from couple of yrs of theory the basics and could spend time finding them if I needed them . And when I did get in a chord class i I was lost as a goose . When I finally did fig out that most of the available chords are in the chord shapes and a certain finger tells the name of the chord, IN MOST CASES, it made it very easy for me to just play and not have to look for the 1-3-5 and the flatted 3rds etc. there are those who are on a need to know why basis. Most in my 15 yrs of teaching just zone out at the talk of chords and theory. One student said when you say chord that's the last thing I hear. I started at the bottom and worked my way up. I remember the feelings all along the way which I think is what makes a good teacher. But in mix tuning when I found the chord shapes , realized we only had 7 notes and that the shapes make all the possible chords with 7 notes it was heaven . Sorry I messed up this chord, appreciate the correction and have already changed on my chord teaching sheet.
Crossing posts
Guy, that is theoretical music thinking, not dulcimer thinking. When playing B-F#-B, one plays a part of a chord, and only the tonica and the fifth. The third is missing, so one can't tell its gender, like major or minor. Playing a diminished chord on any chromatic instrument would be B-D-F-Ab.So 6+/6+/6+ is a B power chord (no gender) and 6+/6/6+ is a B dim, allthough in chording I suggest 6+/6/8 would do a better job. 6+/6+/8 is B minor. In short, there is never a F# in B diminished...