Thanks Robin, its well 'wound up' somewhere just below Fcc , (I did a Robin and ignored the tuner lying on the desk !) Need to make a new set of tuning pegs, the cherry used is a mite soft for the job .
I've been away in Norway for the last week but just got home yesterday and am catching up. It was great to hear this instrument's voice in your video It would seem that many, if not most (or even almost all), early dulcimers had a more 'ringing' timbre thandulcimer playersgenerally use (want) for contemporary playing styles. Personally, I feel this higher timbre actuallymakes the instrument more 'useful' in many respects. It places the instrument in a unique sound space compared to other instruments. And that's something I certainly want to explore more as I believe these older designs and playing styles are THE dulcimers for old time session playing.
I had hoped to spend next week, playingrecording and most importantly catching up with guitar set-ups and dulcimer customers but yesterday afternoon a friend called desperately needing help with a cancer charity residential project in Kent, so I'm going to be away another week.
Thanks Lisa, I just wish that I could have seen/handled the original !!! I must confess that I get a kick out of making these things as near as possible by the same (imagined to some degree no doubt ?) means as they would have been many years ago, and then getting something vaguely tuneful from them, very satisfying ! As probably mentioned before, I was born the year Uncle Ed T. died, so with a smidgen of poetic licence I might be considered 'pre-revival' ?
Robin ! Posted a short vid recently, 'Blackest Crow' played on this, as I thought it might just be of some help in drawing comparisims re just v mean tone intonation, as your previous sound bytes, not ideal I know , as I post straight as it comes from the Zoom thingy , lol, much better with the thing on yer lap !
JohnH
(just out of interest, Ralph L Smith, who gave me a lot of assistance in the build, has made encouraging noises about it on facebook !)
My 1972 staple fretted Ledford is very different to those figures Ken! Although the VSL is almost the same at 678 including bridge compensation.
It doesn't have a zero fret but a standard nut that is set very high.The action from the fretboard to the underside of the melody string at the 1st fret is a whopping 3.2mm. The action at the bridge from the fretboard to the underside of the melody string again very highat 6mm. Here are the fret measurements:
60.2mm nut to 1
69.8mm 1 to 2
34.5mm 2 to 3
58mm 3 to 4
44.3mm 4 to 5
25.8mm 5 to 6
42.5mm 6 to 7
35.5mm 7 to 8
33.5mm 8 to 9
17.5mm 9 to 10
27mm 10 to 11
23mm 11 to 12
12.5mm 12 to 13
21.4mm 13 to 14
This is definitely quite a different fret pattern! But due to the high action I can't say how differently it would play in terms of pitch than your later model? There is a lot of string stretch to each staple fret on my Ledford so the actual pitch each fret plays will be quite different from its calculated position. The action of my nut is as high as the action at the bridge on a standard McSpadden! If I lowered the action on the instrument it would go wildly out of tune - as it is, it plays beautifully but certainly not in equal temperament. The melody string blends with the bass drone, which suggest just intonation. The 3rd, 6th and 7th are all set flat of ET and the 2nd a little sharp, which again matches just intonation.
Ken , thank you for your effort, sorry for the delay in answering, had a busy day yesterday, people coming in to see my wife !
Have checked your figures against the fret layout I have from Homer's workshop, more or less the same, given the small inaccuracies that creep in during the marking and cutting processes, and any bridge 'movement' !
Just to compare, my pattern shows 69 mm from inside nut to CL first fret, 65 mm 1-2, 32 mm 2-3, ect..........
Thank you once again, all useful stuff 'for the record'
As I have a floating bridge, I used a tuner to check notes and their octaves to ensure the bridge was where it should be.
This Ledford has a "0" fret. The distance from the center line of the "0" fret to the inside face of the bridge nut is 678.5 mm.
Fret distances from center line to center line of frets is as follows.
"0" - 1 70 mm
1-2 65.5 mm
2-3 32.5 mm
3-4 58 mm
4-5 45 mm
5-6 26 mm
6-6 1/2 19 mm
6 1/2-7 23 mm
7-8 34 mm
8-9 34.5 mm
9-10 17 mm
10-11 28 mm
11-12 22 mm
12-13 15 mm
13-14 20 mm
The distance from the fret board to the bottom of the string at the inside face of the bridge nut is 4 mm. NOTE: I found the action of Ledford's original nut too high. Rather than modify his, I made a new one out of ebony that lowered the action. The height from the fret board to the bottom of the string on Ledford's original nut is 6 mm.
The distance from the fret board to the bottom of the string at the "0" fret is 1 mm.
JH and Robin, I will do measurements and and post them here as a response to this video. If I use the private mail function I am not sure when they will be deleted with the server move.
JH, I would be most happy to provide all the measurements if you will find them useful. 'Twould be done with a metal drafting ruler and would be in millimeters, which is more accurate than fractions of an inch.
I think spam got a bad name once it got applied to unwanted emails. I does make a good sandwich.
Ken (B) Hmm... Patty and Spam. Far from me to comment, but as you have surmised, there is an underlying problem there, so much so I felt compelled to write, and then sing, a song subsequently posted here about her and Spam a while back (and I don't readily sing these days !!)
Re your Ledford, it's always useful to have info to draw from, thank you for the offer, tho' I hesitate to impose on your creative time. To make things easier I would be very happy to undertake the tedious task of the measuring myself , and would certainly share with Robin ( just wish I lived nearer to him !!!). Send the instrument overhere and the matter will be taken care of, lol !
Thank you Ken (L), I know that you have worked timber, and will therefore appreciate the fact that what you see is the instrument 'sans' finish, silk like to the touch and already with a reflective surface. I was glad that I was able to get something worthwhile from a very off-putting pice of timber in the raw !
Robin and JH.. I have just dropped by this discussion. If it would be of any use to you, I could measure the fret distances on my Ledford, and the height of the strings at the bridge. It is a later one, made in 1999, and would be the culmination of all his years of experimenting, learning and experience.
"Ther ain't no notes on a dulcimer-you jus play it " (Old Rob Clark, 1892)
This will tickle you! Had a band practice last night as a few of us are just putting together a fun band to do some stuff at the local open mic' in The Magic Lantern our local cinema. We were looking forfour crowd pleasers and got stuck after picking two (Dance the Night Away - Mavericks and Ride On - Christy Moore). Someone suggested finding a bluegrass or old time type number. So I thought bluegrass.....Mmmm.....what other colours are there? (my brain working in its usual mysterious way!!!!!)So picked up my old banjo (an 1895 Essex with wooden pegs!) and played Purple Rain (Prince) clawhammer style I think it may go down quite well
Thanks Robin, its well 'wound up' somewhere just below Fcc , (I did a Robin and ignored the tuner lying on the desk !) Need to make a new set of tuning pegs, the cherry used is a mite soft for the job .
John
good luck with the project
Hi John,
I've been away in Norway for the last week but just got home yesterday and am catching up. It was great to hear this instrument's voice in your video
It would seem that many, if not most (or even almost all), early dulcimers had a more 'ringing' timbre thandulcimer playersgenerally use (want) for contemporary playing styles. Personally, I feel this higher timbre actuallymakes the instrument more 'useful' in many respects. It places the instrument in a unique sound space compared to other instruments. And that's something I certainly want to explore more as I believe these older designs and playing styles are THE dulcimers for old time session playing.
I had hoped to spend next week, playingrecording and most importantly catching up with guitar set-ups and dulcimer customers but yesterday afternoon a friend called desperately needing help with a cancer charity residential project in Kent, so I'm going to be away another week.
Thanks Lisa, I just wish that I could have seen/handled the original !!! I must confess that I get a kick out of making these things as near as possible by the same (imagined to some degree no doubt ?) means as they would have been many years ago, and then getting something vaguely tuneful from them, very satisfying ! As probably mentioned before, I was born the year Uncle Ed T. died, so with a smidgen of poetic licence I might be considered 'pre-revival' ?
John
It's just amazing that you created this John Henry! Bravo.
Robin ! Posted a short vid recently, 'Blackest Crow' played on this, as I thought it might just be of some help in drawing comparisims re just v mean tone intonation, as your previous sound bytes, not ideal I know , as I post straight as it comes from the Zoom thingy , lol, much better with the thing on yer lap !
JohnH
(just out of interest, Ralph L Smith, who gave me a lot of assistance in the build, has made encouraging noises about it on facebook !)
My 1972 staple fretted Ledford is very different to those figures Ken! Although the VSL is almost the same at 678 including bridge compensation.
It doesn't have a zero fret but a standard nut that is set very high.The action from the fretboard to the underside of the melody string at the 1st fret is a whopping 3.2mm. The action at the bridge from the fretboard to the underside of the melody string again very highat 6mm. Here are the fret measurements:
60.2mm nut to 1
69.8mm 1 to 2
34.5mm 2 to 3
58mm 3 to 4
44.3mm 4 to 5
25.8mm 5 to 6
42.5mm 6 to 7
35.5mm 7 to 8
33.5mm 8 to 9
17.5mm 9 to 10
27mm 10 to 11
23mm 11 to 12
12.5mm 12 to 13
21.4mm 13 to 14
This is definitely quite a different fret pattern! But due to the high action I can't say how differently it would play in terms of pitch than your later model? There is a lot of string stretch to each staple fret on my Ledford so the actual pitch each fret plays will be quite different from its calculated position. The action of my nut is as high as the action at the bridge on a standard McSpadden! If I lowered the action on the instrument it would go wildly out of tune - as it is, it plays beautifully but certainly not in equal temperament. The melody string blends with the bass drone, which suggest just intonation. The 3rd, 6th and 7th are all set flat of ET and the 2nd a little sharp, which again matches just intonation.
Ken , thank you for your effort, sorry for the delay in answering, had a busy day yesterday, people coming in to see my wife !
Have checked your figures against the fret layout I have from Homer's workshop, more or less the same, given the small inaccuracies that creep in during the marking and cutting processes, and any bridge 'movement' !
Just to compare, my pattern shows 69 mm from inside nut to CL first fret, 65 mm 1-2, 32 mm 2-3, ect..........
Thank you once again, all useful stuff 'for the record'
Best wishes
John
Below are the measurements for my Ledford.
For #5808 made in 1999.
As I have a floating bridge, I used a tuner to check notes and their octaves to ensure the bridge was where it should be.
This Ledford has a "0" fret. The distance from the center line of the "0" fret to the inside face of the bridge nut is 678.5 mm.
Fret distances from center line to center line of frets is as follows.
"0" - 1 70 mm
1-2 65.5 mm
2-3 32.5 mm
3-4 58 mm
4-5 45 mm
5-6 26 mm
6-6 1/2 19 mm
6 1/2-7 23 mm
7-8 34 mm
8-9 34.5 mm
9-10 17 mm
10-11 28 mm
11-12 22 mm
12-13 15 mm
13-14 20 mm
The distance from the fret board to the bottom of the string at the inside face of the bridge nut is 4 mm. NOTE: I found the action of Ledford's original nut too high. Rather than modify his, I made a new one out of ebony that lowered the action. The height from the fret board to the bottom of the string on Ledford's original nut is 6 mm.
The distance from the fret board to the bottom of the string at the "0" fret is 1 mm.
JH and Robin, I will do measurements and and post them here as a response to this video. If I use the private mail function I am not sure when they will be deleted with the server move.
Thank you Ken !
John
I'd be interested
JH, I would be most happy to provide all the measurements if you will find them useful. 'Twould be done with a metal drafting ruler and would be in millimeters, which is more accurate than fractions of an inch.
I think spam got a bad name once it got applied to unwanted emails. I does make a good sandwich.
Ken (B) Hmm... Patty and Spam. Far from me to comment, but as you have surmised, there is an underlying problem there, so much so I felt compelled to write, and then sing, a song subsequently posted here about her and Spam a while back (and I don't readily sing these days !!)
Re your Ledford, it's always useful to have info to draw from, thank you for the offer, tho' I hesitate to impose on your creative time. To make things easier I would be very happy to undertake the tedious task of the measuring myself , and would certainly share with Robin ( just wish I lived nearer to him !!!). Send the instrument over here and the matter will be taken care of, lol !
best wishes
John
Thank you Ken (L), I know that you have worked timber, and will therefore appreciate the fact that what you see is the instrument 'sans' finish, silk like to the touch and already with a reflective surface. I was glad that I was able to get something worthwhile from a very off-putting pice of timber in the raw !
John
enjoy your trip
Great looking instrument, JH.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
How come Patty and spam so often end up in the same discussion
Robin and JH.. I have just dropped by this discussion. If it would be of any use to you, I could measure the fret distances on my Ledford, and the height of the strings at the bridge. It is a later one, made in 1999, and would be the culmination of all his years of experimenting, learning and experience.
"Patty, am I to assume that you actually have tins of Spam in your store cupboard !!!!"
Yes, my husband's stash, LOL
"Ther ain't no notes on a dulcimer-you jus play it " (Old Rob Clark, 1892)
This will tickle you! Had a band practice last night as a few of us are just putting together a fun band to do some stuff at the local open mic' in The Magic Lantern our local cinema. We were looking forfour crowd pleasers and got stuck after picking two (Dance the Night Away - Mavericks and Ride On - Christy Moore). Someone suggested finding a bluegrass or old time type number. So I thought bluegrass.....Mmmm.....what other colours are there? (my brain working in its usual mysterious way!!!!!)So picked up my old banjo (an 1895 Essex with wooden pegs!) and played Purple Rain (Prince) clawhammer style
I think it may go down quite well 
Someone gave me a postcard once, shows a stylised dulcimer and a caption, "Ther ain't no notes on a dulcimer-you jus play it " (Old Rob Clark, 1892)
John
(please don't choke on yer cawfee)